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+---- Thread: Why does Marxist-Leninist Socialism fail? (/Thread-Why-does-Marxist-Leninist-Socialism-fail)
Why does Marxist-Leninist Socialism fail? - Patrick Bateman - 11-19-2011 04:17 AM
I see a lot of members on this board talk about all of the benefits of Communism, but no one seems to want to talk about what is currently happening now/has happened in the past in Communist countries.
Let's look at 6 countries:
China,
Laos,
Vietnam,
Cuba,
North Korea, and
the Soviet Union.
So out of these 6 countries, I don't think anyone on here will deny that 3 of these countries (China, North Korea, and the Soviet Union), have/had massive breaches in human rights, and censorship.
Doing a 5 minute search, I found that Cuba has significant censorship and breaches in human rights, as well as in Laos and Vietnam.
So my question is, why does Communism continue to fail? Why are there continuing beaches in human rights and censorship.
Edited: Changed title from Communist to Marxist-Leninist Socialism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_countries
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - YaelTheGreat - 11-19-2011 04:26 AM
Socialist*
As far as the Soviet Union goes, it began as a very succesful movement. They began to make massive public projects that energized the economy and the workers. People from America actually went to th SU to gain work. All the people got water, electricity, and literacy during that time. The Nazi's are the ones who fucked it up.
Cuba is actually doing pretty well.
America, European Union, Russia, and every other country in the world have extreme censorship and human rights violations, your point? Cuba has never been to a war since fidel, Their people are more literate, educated, healthier, and patriotic than they once were. Cuba does much more humanitarian work than most countries, and invest money into sciences that hace no market in Cuba, just to help people. Nocountry is perfect, and Fidel does not hide his killing of disidents.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - ChunChu - 11-19-2011 04:48 AM
China is a bootleg communist country, they have been introduced to capitalism. Not to mention the Chinese are one of the oldest civilization, so they are strong in culture.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - Patrick Bateman - 11-19-2011 05:34 AM
Yael, can you please explain how the Nazi's fucked up the Soviet Union. I thought it was Stalin and his regime?
And so it is ok to breach human rights and enforce censorship on your own citizens, as long as you are doing some good humanitarian work, and not going to war with other countries?
I thought I made my point clear in my first post. So many people praise Communism, yet ignore the breaches that has occurred in human rights and censorship.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - YaelTheGreat - 11-19-2011 05:44 AM
There has never been an implementation of Communism. It has been Socialism, the transition period. Cuba commits less human rights violations than the majority of the world. I believe Amnesty international has praised them for this.
I am not to versed on Soviet Union history, all I know is that once power changed hands and Nazism became the countries philosophy, it went from socialism to totalitarian.
You seem to assume that "communist" countries are somehow bad because they have human rights violations. Every country has human rights violations, so there is no point in talking about them unless they are atrocious. North Korea, I am a little iffy on, but I think that their rights are severly limited, but don't quote me on that. China is pretty insane, but it has become a totalatarian government with capitalist goals. It is far from socialism, they provide their people with nothing, and their have very scary organ trading.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - Chino - 11-19-2011 05:56 AM
Where is Vegan?
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - YaelTheGreat - 11-19-2011 06:00 AM
I keep on saying it and no one believes me, he dead.
Just kidding, He's on now and then, but never post anything interestin and compelling anymore.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - Patrick Bateman - 11-19-2011 06:07 AM
Yael, I agree with a lot of what you said, in that a lot, if not all countries have human rights violations (but to differing degrees). The one thing that I really don't like about Cuba, is as you said the "his killing of dissidents". This can not possibly be seen as a good thing.
However, of the 6 countries I named (which I chose as Wikipedia says that they are currently under marxist-Lenist communism, plus the Soviet Union), 3 of them have significant human rights, and censorship violations (China, North Korea, and the Soviet Union). But when people talk about socialism, they never talk about this. It should be discussed.
NB: I figure I should also say that I am not against Socialism (as I am sure I will be accused of it).
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - Rio-Leonardo - 11-19-2011 06:11 AM
It has failed because most countries that tried to implement communism through Socialism left out a very important stage -> Capitalism! China has recognized their mistake and corrected it.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - YaelTheGreat - 11-19-2011 06:15 AM
China is no longer Socialist, Soviet Union was a good socialist country before it defected into Nazism ( not sure the conditions of human rights in the 20's and 30's), ande North Korea is a very scared and lonely country because it has isolated itself from the world. Every contry kills dissedents, America has a whole bunch of Black Panters, Cubans, and Puerto Rican Nationals in jail, why not bring that up? At least Cuba has the balls to say whats what. You can't fault them for being scared. They have been ostrichized by the world, drastic measures must be taken. People don't talk about it, because there is nothing to talk about. If you want to play this human rights violations game, lets look at the violation in the "civilized" countries, and see how they stack up against evil Cuba.
(11-19-2011 06:11 AM)Rio-Leonardo Wrote: It has failed because most countries that tried to implement communism through Socialism left out a very important stage -> Capitalism! China has recognized their mistake and corrected it.
What the fuck just happened here? Are you suggesting that China is a model for socialism? Or are you being sarcastic?
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - Patrick Bateman - 11-19-2011 07:03 AM
Can you please elaborate this Soviet Union defecting into Nazism?
And so North Korea is lonely its ok to breach human rights and employ drastic censorship?
I didn't mention USA, as I'm talking about Communist countries, and no one is yet explained why these Socialist countries failed, it seems as if you're just trying to justify there actions.
RE: Why does Communism continue to fail? - ClichéGuevara - 11-19-2011 08:45 AM
When in the hell did the USSR become Nazi? As far as I know the USSR never became a fascist, pro-white, German nationalist state.
Also, as far as I know, the USSR failed because of economic problems and Khrushchev's reforms.
Alsssoooo, "Communist countries" haven't existed at all in modern history, since Communism is a stateless classless society. Primitive Communism has existed in past when humanity was still hunter gatherers.