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+--- Thread: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism (/Thread-Scottish-Devolution-British-Federalism)
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-22-2011 12:26 PM
Even the socialistsv talk about independence as a means towards socialism - even anarchists talk about it 0- Bakunin discussed the idea of a united pan slavic nationalism. You dont have to be a raving right wing kilt wearing nationalist xenophobic patriot type. Though in some circles in Edinburgh it helps.
Whats the idea of anarchism you have Sean? Free tickets for student concerts?
The 'no flags' rhetoric reminds me of pseudo radicalism - abandoning your identity and culture and who you are to buy into globalism - hence the control of your/our culture by America.
The representatives politically in Britain dont even represent their own indigenous industries - let alone theiir cultural industries - thats why Brits have the policies determined at the EU level eat mcdonald burgers and watch US movies... but i suppose with a name like 'mc' thats kind of 'scots' right? lol
If you dont support your own dont expect that your colonial overseer will be your benefactor.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-22-2011 08:19 PM
Who said I was an anarchist?
Scottish culture isn't really controlled by the US at all. Don't need nationalism to appreciate your culture either. With that said, Scottish culture means nothing to me. I don't speak Gaelic, hate the traditional music, wouldn't wear a kilt. The only good Scottish thing is available all over the UK anyway (Irn Bru).
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-22-2011 11:36 PM
US movies, music television, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc - you might like some US culture but it pretty much controls the culture in the UK. Your national identity comes out in your culture - that doesnt have to be static or in the past - but its something you and your people create - or not.
You dont speak Gaelic you speak English - that makes you a colonised Scot. You might like to speak English rather than Gaelic - thats not the point -. The point is that you do so because Scotland was conquered by the English. If England was conquered by the Scots the English would be speaking Gaelic. if you and your ancestors are from Scotland you are still not speaking the language your ancestors spoke - you are speaking the language of the foriegn country that dominates your country - like it or not.
This is why, for instance the Irish language is taught in Irish schools even though most people speak English because their country was colonised - they are aware of this, that why they try to preserve and foster the Gaeltacht areas.
This is of no interest to you because you are already Anglicized and -like many British, becoming more Americanised - only you probably will think that you are not, or think what the fuck anyway. Thats because you believe that you are independent and that the things which shape you are not shaping you.
Thats valso why your own {limited} view of your own culture doesnt interest you because that process has already taken place.
This is not entirely your fault since it has happened all over Britain and Europe - though some see it and do what they can to resist it - it is nevertheless occuring.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-22-2011 11:41 PM
I'm Scottish and English, so you know, doesn't bother me.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-22-2011 11:51 PM
That explains it.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-22-2011 11:56 PM
You done tryna psycho-analyse me?
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-23-2011 12:35 AM
I'm not trying to psycho-analyse you but explain what has happened over the decades to us all - including myself - though we might not realise it of how cultures and nations are controlled, bought and sold- and this occurs due to the wealthy oligarchies, the rich elite who control nations. Ask the Irish if they would be ruled by the British - yet at the time of the Easter Rising many Irish thought of themselves as British - infact there were break up of families - between generations, when a younger generation fought for independence.
Would the Irish today consider they should be ruled by Westminster?
(.....actually seeing the fuck up of it made by Bertie Ahern they probably would .lol)
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-23-2011 12:54 AM
Your post kinda reminded me of this so I'm gonna post it. I know that a lot of the Scots who want independence want it because they hate the English. When I say the English I mean the average Englishmen who's no better or no worse than the Scot who hates them. It's stupid. I feel they should really be aiming their hatred at the monarchy and the state instead of someone who's no different from them.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - shakur420 - 10-23-2011 01:25 AM
I don't know, never saw the big deal about "culture". That's just the bullshit your parents used to do, and the way they used to do it. It's not sacred or anything, it's actually really ugly sometimes. So-called "honor killings" being an extreme example of why we should spit on culture instead of use it as a clutch to fight domination. Hip Hop is another extreme of how a culture of education, organization and entertainment can be used alongside many other things as a weapon and defence in your struggles. I speak English because I was born in Canada. I knew Urdu/Hindi and some Arabic and French when I was young because it was imposed on me under the guise of "culture". I grew up to reject them all because they're not my culture. My "culture" is made up of many things, including life in southern Ontario. I don't need to know, understand or respect the ways and principles of my parents from once upon a time, in a faraway land - just "because". Because of "tradition", "culture" or anything else. For what? If I'm researching a particular topic, then sure, I can ask and look. If I'm cooking and I wanna learn a type of cuisine, or classic ingredient pairings, then yeah, I could look into the culinary "culture" of France, Italy, Mexico, whatever. Otherwise, what the fuck do I care if my Galrandfather grew up in India, or Korea, or wherever?
Also, what's the big problem with globalization? That's allowed us to have this convo, allowed me to learn more in the last 5 years then I did in my whole life, probably. It's allowed us to experience so many things, grow in so many ways, learn so much, connect and all that. The "globalization" you're talking about is private wealth securing domination over foreign economies, yeah, that's fucked a lot of people, but that's not globalization. That's their version of globalization. The one percent's version. Not ours. Our globalization looks like the "Arab spring", the "Occupy movement", this spot right here. What's wrong with that? Maybe when Bakunin was around, "nationalism" as a tactic made sense, maybe. I don't know enough about history to have an opinion, but I'm well enough versed about my life and I think nationalist ideas today are pretty much irrelevant to the working class struggles - at least from the perspective of "developed" societies. In fact, if we look at Egypt and contrast it with Wisconsin, it seems like the globalization of news, info, communications and struggles have a very positive effect for us. They knew about each other and were aware that each other's struggles did not begin this year. The organized working class around the world seems very conscious about what's going in other parts of the world. Just because in our "western" societies, were generally less aware, doesn't mean the people in Germany, Italy, Egypt, Syria, Spain, Chile, Venezuela, Argentina, Indonesia, Greece, etc. are unaware. Even England, damn, I still can't get over how much your students, your workers, are so conscious and ready to bring shit to the streets. They didn't even say the word "privatization", they just mentioned that private sector competition in some areas would be good for the NHS and you guys are up in arms. It's sick. Even your propaganda class - the ones who call themselves "journalists" - are freaking about it. It's fucking inspiring.
Anyways, without really getting into the discussion (lol), I just wanted to say thanks for the info, pretty ignorant to the history of that area. And I'm really interested in the Roman period you were talking about, how shot developed and stuff. More of that would be much appreciated cause I'm still a little confused. About the wall and shit.
And what the fuck is "devolution"? Independence? "Devo lite" is controlling your taxation but leaving foreign affairs and security in the hands of others, so not so much "devolution". Is this implying that independence is regression? I don't really get it.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-23-2011 01:27 AM
Sean -I hate that kind of xenophobia. It is hypocritical. Clannish group hatred.
After the peace process in Northern Ireland race attacks and domestic violenceshot up - that sectarian hatred had to be expressed some way. Its the same 'them vs. us' mentality.
So how is it possible to move towards a Republic (ie; abolish the monarchy) move towards some kind of equality and less class system/inequality when in voting terms the tradition has been that the vast majority of Scots have been Labour-left voters while the English have been right wing Conservative voters - not that either have made much difference, but its unlikely that the English are ever going to change in that respect.I'm not uncritical of the Scots but I will say this for them - at least they did make a change from Labour to the SNP after Blair and Brown fucked up the Labour Part. What did the English do?
Duh...."lets vote Tory again".
How is there ever going to be change with that. The English, whatever their merits (I'm being generous here) love the monarchy, the class system and power. The Scots also may do - infact theres lots of examples where they obviously do as theres a tradition obviously of Unionism but they dont have that Tory Home Counties tradition to the same extent - so theres at least a chance they might change.
The Scots talk about devolution and not independence. I dont know why - maybe because they want a Scots Parliament with more and more powers, but they want the English to pay for it. = which obviously is a great solution for the Scots.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-23-2011 01:32 AM
(10-23-2011 01:25 AM)shakur420 Wrote: And what the fuck is "devolution"? Independence? "Devo lite" is controlling your taxation but leaving foreign affairs and security in the hands of others, so not so much "devolution". Is this implying that independence is regression? I don't really get it.
It's just how much powers a country's government has within the union, essentially.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-23-2011 01:48 AM
Quote:I don't know, never saw the big deal about "culture". That's just the bullshit your parents used to do, and the way they used to do it. It's not sacred or anything, it's actually really ugly sometimes. So-called "honor killings" being an extreme example of why we should spit on culture instead of use it as a clutch to fight domination. Hip Hop is another extreme of how a culture of education, organization and entertainment can be used alongside many other things as a weapon and defence in your struggles. I speak English because I was born in Canada. I knew Urdu/Hindi and some Arabic and French when I was young because it was imposed on me under the guise of "culture". I grew up to reject them all because they're not my culture. My "culture" is made up of many things, including life in southern Ontario. I don't need to know, understand or respect the ways and principles of my parents from once upon a time, in a faraway land - just "because". Because of "tradition", "culture" or anything else. For what? If I'm researching a particular topic, then sure, I can ask and look. If I'm cooking and I wanna learn a type of cuisine, or classic ingredient pairings, then yeah, I could look into the culinary "culture" of France, Italy, Mexico, whatever. Otherwise, what the fuck do I care if my Galrandfather grew up in India, or Korea, or wherever?
Why shouldnt you care?
So you rob yourself of your Urdu Hindi heritage? Will you be celebrating Diwali?
Why wouldnt you not be interested in your roots? What do you live in a perpetual present ruled by corporate media? I thought you read 'Manufacturing Consent? lol I am sure you must have more curiosity than that given that your family name - thats as much as your birthright as being born in Canada.
Culture is literature, art, poetry music - your history - that is your family history - and that cultural history good and bad. Why 'spit' on the best of that? You pick on the worst aspect of culture and not the best. Why say 'honour killings' and not the work of Satyajit Ray, or philosophy or authors?
So we will have a globalised future where we all will have no past. I bet the corporates will love that. We will all watch the Simpsons and US corporate tv, watch Hollywood movies and eat pizza -
fucking great.
Globalisation is a strategy developed by corporate power to assume ever larger government - hence the EU - thats why nationalism isnt infact unimportant - it might even be crucial to actually resist the dangerous idea of a one world ideology leading towards totalitarianism.
I mean, - who needs this-
orwell could have written that. lol