Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - Printable Version
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RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-21-2011 11:15 PM
(10-21-2011 10:23 PM)Sean Wrote: None of us care tbh. We have the most devolved parliament out of the 4 nations in Britain, we have our own sterling, our quality of life is decent enough. There's really no reason for us to care enough (except silly patriots who think Braveheart was an outstanding movie)
If that had any validity at all as an opinion the SNP would not have made the electoral gains it has.#
The 'none of us care' are gutless Scots too cowardly to get their own independence - as a result you as Scots are ruled.
People like that are pissed on.
If it were representative at all of true Scots sentiment you wouldnt have had such a reaction to this;
Braveheart was only a hymn to Scots independence. And why do you think it had the Irish character?
No dount there'll be bourgeois mutterings about 'we have a strong sterling' as if a centuries old struggle were about a little bit of cash and home comforts.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-21-2011 11:22 PM
It's the 21st century, there are far more important things that petty ideals like nationalism. Nations, nationalities, nationalism and patriotism are pointless. The class struggle of Britain as a whole is much more important than the independence of Scotland.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-21-2011 11:47 PM
(10-21-2011 10:03 PM)TheMythOfSisyphus Wrote: Wait a second, so the British all more or less descended from Germans and Norweigens?
that is NOT the Scots or Welsh who are celts
(10-21-2011 11:22 PM)Sean Wrote: It's the 21st century, there are far more important things that petty ideals like nationalism. Nations, nationalities, nationalism and patriotism are pointless. The class struggle of Britain as a whole is much more important than the independence of Scotland.
the class struggle frequently takes place within the nationalist struggle. Especially for the self determination of smaller nations. That was the context of the struggle in Ireland and in the Latin American countries.
'No borders' merely plays into the hands of the glovalist capitalists and the corporates who have more capital to prevail. Thats why the nationalist struggle is also relevant to Socialism.
And I dont mean national Socialism or the patriotic right.
Heres an example;
Its not about dividing people but that people in a specific geographical
place possess their own autonomy.
Scots independence is about the class struggle since it breaks up the hedgemony of the ruling Westminster establishment - its a further - and important move in that direction
If you look at the scene in the Braveheart movie where they stop the horse - after Wallaces wife has her throat cut - this was a clever reference to the kind of road blocks the English were using in Ulster - thats also why they included the Irish character - it was loaded with references to the present political situation - it was a specifically national independance message.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-21-2011 11:54 PM
And from whom did the Celts descend from? Germanic settlers.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-22-2011 12:05 AM
Not at all. And you cant count that the people who have lived in an area for centuries dont have the right to self determination because we are all descended from Africans. It would be like saying the Europeans had a right to colonise Africa because essentially they were their descendants and that they are merely reclaiming ancient homelands. lol
Xenophobia aside there has to be some time frame in relation to belonging to a place.
English are not Scots.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-22-2011 12:06 AM
We don't want independence. Deal with it.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-22-2011 12:10 AM
You mean YOU dont want independence - but the move is towards it. This is why the SNP eclipsed the Labour Party - the first time in history. Scots independence is like Irish independence - its an historic inevitability.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-22-2011 12:11 AM
The MAJORITY of us don't want it.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - 1871 - 10-22-2011 12:44 AM
Thats a population that has gradually been moving in the direction of independence - which thirty years ago didnt even have a devolved parliament and where Scots national independence was only dreamed of years ago. And even without the SNP - who I dont think that much of - there would still be a convincing argument from a sociakist or left perspective.
do you think that they will ever get rid of Trident with the Union intact? That is the Union ruled by the monarchy. And what about the war on Iraq?
Independence would give the Scots to adopt the same policy as the Republic of Irelands neutrality ie;
Quote:Ireland has a "traditional policy of military neutrality". In particular, Ireland remained neutral during World War II, and has never been a member of NATO or the Non-Aligned Movement. The formulation and justification of the neutrality policy has varied over time. The compatibility of the policy with Ireland's membership of the European Union has been a point of debate in recent EU treaty referendum campaigns in Ireland.
Break up the UK and you move towards breaking up the over-riding control of that structure of empire and monarchy and London banking institutions.
From an anarchist perspective its a step towards breaking up the
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - TheMythOfSisyphus - 10-22-2011 01:25 AM
1871 your furious vigor in this debate has pleased me.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - Fuzzly Bear - 10-22-2011 08:02 AM
Ey, rly, this is about further devolution / federalism, not independence (which there is a large amount of support for). You must surely want more autonomy and self-determination Sean, or you surely wouldn't call yourself a Scot and would vote for the Unionist parties.
Forgetting about Cornwall guys. They're some weird peeps. Very unfortunate.
RE: Scottish Devolution / British Federalism - ClichéGuevara - 10-22-2011 10:29 AM
I don't really call myself a Scot, Hamish. My nationality isn't something I care about.