Mexican Independence - Printable Version
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Mexican Independence - Killuminati - 09-15-2011 10:27 PM
Before any of you motherfuckers start screamming "Viva Mexico!" let's learn a little about the history of Mexico and what led to the war of independence from the Spanish Monarchy (not Spanish rule) in the 18th century.
Race & Social Status in 18th Century Mexico
First off, there are a million and one racial mixtures in Mexico. Too many to list. The reason for the need to identify the different racial mixtures in Mexico was because one's race and bloodlines determined one's social status and position in the social hierarchy set up by the Spanish. The clearer, more white skinned a Mexican's skin, the more respected he/she was in colonial Mexico (still evident today, actually, not just in Mexico but in more places than ever before).
Just to list a few of the most common racial mixtures that took place in Mexico and what they produce are:
1.) espanol + negra = mulato
2.) mulato +espaniola = testeron or terceron
3.) testeron + espamiola = quarteron
4.) quarteron + espafola = quinteron
5.) quinteron +espanola = blanco or espaniol comuin
6.) negro + mulata = sambo
7.) sambo + mulata = sambohigo
8.) sambohigo + mulata = tente en el aire
9.) tente en el aire+ mulata = salta atras
10.) espanol + india = mestizo real
11.) mestizo + india = cholo
12.) cholo + india = tente en el aire
One of the races not listed are the Criollos (Creoles) which are full-blooded Spaniards whom were born in 'the new world.' This was the ruling class in colonial Mexico simply because of their race, and this reason was used by the Catholic church and the Spanish monarchy to entitle these individuals to the land, the hard labor by Indios and Negros (Encomiendas), and some of the profits and wealth extracted from the land.
Jorge Cañizares-Esguerra wrote in his article "Racial, Religious, and Civic Creole Identity in Colonial Spanish America"...
Quote:"The self-styled Criollos or Creoles were local elites who presided over racially mixed colonial societies of Indians, blacks, and Castas (mixed bloods). Creoles felt entitled to rule over these racially and culturally heterogeneous societies, as part of a loosely held Catholic composite monarchy whose center was back in Madrid. By and large they succeeded in their efforts to obtain autonomy vis-à-vis Spain..." (Esguerra, 423)
Quote:The Creole project was aimed at establishing an orderly polity composed of hierarchical social orders in nested subordination. Spanish America was indeed a society built on corporate privileges and social estates that overlapped with additional racial hierarchies. Although Castas grew in the interstices of the original three-tier system of Spaniards, Indians, and Africans and, therefore, blurred the colonial boundaries of class and race, Spanish America was a society obsessed with identifying and enforcing racial hierarchies..." (Esguerra, 424)
If you want to read on about the silly boundaries that separated us and created factions among Mexicans during colonization, check out the link article: Racial, Religious, and Civic Creole Identity in Colonial Spanish America.pdf
The Criollos, although in small numbers, also made up the majority in the Catholic church in Spanish America, and as history shows, they systematically used this to their advantage by reinterpreting the word of God and using other deities (The Virgin Mary) to their advantage. Religion was systematically changed and used over the centuries in order to benefit the ruling class. I know some of you hardcore catholics and Virgin Mary worshipers are going to hate me for saying this, but it's the truth. Check out: The Virgin of Guadalupe: Symbol of Conquest or Liberation.pdf
The Mexican War of Independence? Or...
So what does this have to do with Mexico's so-called Independence?
Even though Mexico was still controlled by the Spanish monarchy in Spain, the Spanish monarchy decided to "launch an aggressive program of reform, including taking control of the colonies away from Creole interests..." (see link above) - not to mention the massive amount of wealth that was being extracted from the lands and exported to Spain (Precious metals - silver, gold). In response to this new plan by the Spanish monarchy, the Criollos decided to stir up a nationalist movement among the lower classes (Indios, Negros, Castas, etc.). The Criollos had always felt as the 'natural' inheritors of the land, but at this time they 'temporarily' included the sub-classes as well only because the Criollos were far outnumbered by the Spanish monarchy. With this plan, Criollos created a movement in which people of all races, colors, and creeds in Mexico fought for Criollo interests.
So, once again, as we have seen many times in our history, through lies, deceit, and trickery... we were tricked into fighting not for our interests, but for the interests of the ruling class. Because, as these sub-classes will soon come to realize, the land was still in white hands, and all the wealth was still privately owned by white Criollos after the war.
Quote:"It was in the language of vecindad and naturaleza that the ideological struggles of the so-called Wars of Independence (1810–24) were fought. Creoles sought to include Indians, mestizos and blacks as naturales of creolized Spanish American kingdoms, part of a larger Spanish commonwealth. Fearful of being outnumbered and of losing control of the commonwealth, Peninsulares** balked and sought to limit the franchise..." The Independence of Spanish America (1998).
*Vecindad and Naturaleza: The ways in which the Creoles created a sense of national pride among the lower classes.
** Peninsulares: The Spanish monarchy.
After learning about the new agenda and struggling to continue to be part of the empire, Creoles finally realized that the only way to have their own kingdoms in Mexico without external influence was by declaring independence...
The famous "Grito de Dolores" was the declaration or announcement of the war against Spanish rule by none other than a FAKE, Criollo Catholic priest by the name of Miguel Hidalgo (I don't have time to explain why he was fake, so look it up). This guy is credited by a lot of Mexicans as being one of the 'founding fathers' of Mexico, while others credit Cortez as being the founding father of Mexico. I'm up for a debate... one of which doesn't include either of these scumbags.
So this war that was supposed to liberate the so-called "Mexicans" from Spanish rule was really a way for the ruling class to separate itself from Spanish rule. Criollos used the Mexican people to fight their independence from Spain, while the sub-classes gained nothing in return. As said in an Immortal Technique song, "The Spaniards never left despues de Colon (after Colon), and if you don't believe me you can click on Univision. I've never seen so much racism in all of my life, every program and news cast; all of them white"(Leaving the Past). So when you see someone today or tomorrow screaming "Viva Mexico!" and indulging themselves in Mexican cuisine and beer (which was brought to Mexico by Spaniards), remember whose independence they're really celebrating because the real people of Mexico are still under colonization. Latin America is still under colonization.
Colonization nunca ha acabado (Colonization has never ended). Long live the proletariat struggle of the 3rd world!
RE: Mexican Independence - 1871 - 09-15-2011 10:53 PM
Who is Mexico under colonisation by? Spain? Spaniards in Spain? Mexicans of Spanish descent who constitute a ruling class ?
RE: Mexican Independence - Diegoscp - 09-15-2011 11:02 PM
Good article, thought -provoking too. It makes people question their history and explore more on the reasons behind some civil wars, wars, conflicts and revolutions.
RE: Mexican Independence - Rev - 09-15-2011 11:19 PM
RE: Mexican Independence - Killuminati - 09-16-2011 12:48 AM
(09-15-2011 10:53 PM)1871 Wrote: Who is Mexico under colonisation by? Spain? Spaniards in Spain? Mexicans of Spanish descent who constitute a ruling class ?
The illuminati. (<----- notice the sarcasm. Diego is a sarcasm-challenged individual)
Who do you think? Even after the war, there was still a ruling class in Mexico - most of which were made up of Criollos. The fact that they gathered support to back the war didn't mean shit after they signed the Treaty of Cordoba. Afterward, you know how wealth and power is inherited through bloodlines.
RE: Mexican Independence - Chino - 09-16-2011 10:51 PM
(09-16-2011 12:48 AM)Killuminati Wrote: Who do you think? Even after the war, there was still a ruling class in Mexico - most of which were made up of Criollos. The fact that they gathered support to back the war didn't mean shit after they signed the Treaty of Cordoba. Afterward, you know how wealth and power is inherited through bloodlines.
and they're hiding in plain sight as well.
maybe the cartels aint the biggest problem in Mexico right now.
RE: Mexican Independence - 1871 - 09-17-2011 11:20 AM
Wow. So iif there are a 'million and one' racial mixtures in Mexico then they all must have been fucking eachother right? So the criollos are missing out on all that great fucking yes?
Does this mean that the same families have been fucking eachother for centuries ? That leads to generational congenital idiocy - which accounts for Mexicos crappy rulers but not for the idiocy of the other quarteron/quintillion/tritrillion racial mixtures who have idiotically failed to change
an idiotic system that hasnt changed since the 16th century.
btw -had to laugh at that reference to cartels not being the biggest problem.
RE: Mexican Independence - Killuminati - 09-17-2011 03:15 PM
Have you ever been to Mexico or Latino America 1871? It's full of people who look European, Native, and in between. That's it! In other countries, Blacks are very much still noticeable, but for now we will focus on Mexico.
Who do you think has the well paying jobs? (Fuck well paying, who do you think has JOBS!?) Who do you think owns something of value? Which group of people do you think DON'T struggle to make ends meet everyday?
Another thing, this happened a lot during the first years of colonialism, something I forgot to mention in my post. When a terceron (Mix between white/black, more white than black) reproduced and had children with a white woman, because there was black in the terceron, sometimes the child would turn out fully black as opposed to more white because of the black in the terceron. Even then, this wasn't enough to deny the child his right to be treated like royalty, or to be denied his land, or more importantly his respect! So, like I said, power and wealth are passed through bloodlines. This is why you would see black slaves owning other black slaves (much like in Haiti).
Peace, be back soon.
RE: Mexican Independence - 1871 - 09-17-2011 03:50 PM
Wow. Terceron. That sounds fucked up. Where I come from we dont make distinctions like that because everyone has fucked everyone else though there are still white middle class males in top positions of power but less and less each year.
No I've never been to Mexico. I'd like to go there one day for sure. I did hear that Mexico has a fucked up attitude to race tho'.
Quote:Another thing, this happened a lot during the first years of colonialism, something I forgot to mention in my post. When a terceron (Mix between white/black, more white than black) reproduced and had children with a white woman, because there was black in the terceron, sometimes the child would turn out fully black as opposed to more white because of the black in the terceron. Even then, this wasn't enough to deny the child his right to be treated like royalty, or to be denied his land, or more importantly his respect! So, like I said, power and wealth are passed through bloodlines. This is why you would see black slaves owning other black slaves (much like in Haiti).
so - if I understand you correctly here you mean 'familial bloodlines' rather than colour?
And you havent changed such a situation since the 16th Century ?
Doesnt say a lot for your country or your people.
Quote:Mexican Democracy, Even Under Siege
Btw - Mexicans born in Mexico from whatever parentage arent European. They are Mexicans.
They may be descended from Europeans but Europeans are descended from Africans.
The best way to overcome this is not to focus on the 'what they did to us in the past' schtick
because - however much we want to you aint gonna change the past. You just have to campaign for change somehow - get elected - achieve more.
RE: Mexican Independence - Chino - 09-17-2011 06:37 PM
1871, Killminati Spoke my mind on his posts, Mexican bloodlines were mainly about Inheriting wealth and respect.
Quote:had to laugh at that reference to cartels not being the biggest problem.
Quote:The best way to overcome this is not to focus on the 'what they did to us in the past' schtickok. so you want change eh? kill , should we tell him about what happened when a Mexican president candidate wanted change and got a bullet to the head?
RE: Mexican Independence - Killuminati - 09-17-2011 08:04 PM
(09-17-2011 03:50 PM)1871 Wrote: ^
Brother, the racism and class-ism in Latin America is way worse than in the U.S.
(09-17-2011 03:50 PM)1871 Wrote: so - if I understand you correctly here you mean 'familial bloodlines' rather than colour?
Yes sir. I hate to post this online, but not too long ago I learned that my great great grandfather on my mother's side was a very wealthy man in Mexico, and when he passed the greediest of his children inherited his lands and riches. My grandmother got nothing since she's one of the younger siblings in her family. That's how shit's passed down my friend. As far as my great great grandfather and how he attained all that wealth, I don't know but I want to find out.
(09-17-2011 03:50 PM)1871 Wrote: And you havent changed such a situation since the 16th Century ?Read above.
(09-17-2011 03:50 PM)1871 Wrote: Btw - Mexicans born in Mexico from whatever parentage arent European. They are Mexicans. They may be descended from Europeans but Europeans are descended from Africans.
That's true, that's very true, but the situation in Mexico is completely out of hand. I mean, Jesus Christ, in some towns in Mexico it's Anarchy - there is no government control whatsoever because the cartels run those territories. Not to mention the economic state of Mexico with a large portion of the population living in poverty, while the wealth is in the hands of a few. 14% of the Mexican economy is owned by 1 man. I mean, really?
(09-17-2011 06:37 PM)Chino Wrote: ok. so you want change eh? kill , should we tell him about what happened when a Mexican president candidate wanted change and got a bullet to the head?
Tell him about Mexico's Highway of Death as well brother.
RE: Mexican Independence - 1871 - 09-17-2011 09:12 PM
Quote:Yes sir. I hate to post this online, but not too long ago I learned that my great great grandfather on my mother's side was a very wealthy man in Mexico, and when he passed the greediest of his children inherited his lands and riches. My grandmother got nothing since she's one of the younger siblings in her family. That's how shit's passed down my friend. As far as my great great grandfather and how he attained all that wealth, I don't know but I want to find out.
That happened to people close to me also. The elder brother gets an inheritance - the daughters get nothing. The eldest son gets the land - the daughter/s nothing. Not just to people I know personally also. Its another catholic country also - and thats nothing against catholics as I am married to one. lol. Old traditions die hard.
Quote:Brother, the racism and class-ism in Latin America is way worse than in the U.S.
Then it MUST be bad. It is wierd reading your post referring to the race thing since where I am living at the moment temporarily in England; there are people from Asian Chinese Pakistan there are people from India most African countries, Germany. Poland, Canada etc etc IN THE SAME STREET let alone the same town. There are race crimes now and then but the vast majority of people dont think along lines of race because they are in the same workplace - just infact the same as most cities. There are bloodlines in the uk with Royalty - as there are in the States but as far as ethnic/racial divides go most people think that is bs because the area is too small for racism to be at all feasible lol. This is not to say that there are not racist inciudents - there are - but they are notable because racism is despised in the society. The European nations generally export their racism as you say - but the one you describe is still thats a remarkable long time
for a society to determine itself along lines of racial priviledge. In Britain it occured with the Norman (French) invasion of England in 1066 where 100,000 plus people were massacred (except that the English/Anglo Saxons had themselves invaded from Germany and before that the Romans invaded) 85% of the aristocracy in Britain today trace their lines back to the Normans of the invasion. Franco in Spain was aided by the English upper class.
You'll still have something like this;
Quote:The wealthiest 10 per cent own 44 per cent of the country’s personal assets and were nearly five times more wealthy than the bottom half. This top layer has over half of the country’s financial assets and pension wealth, the most unequally held assets. The disparity in wealth across the nation far outstrips that of income, for which detailed figures have been available for many years.
so there is a class system as you saw with the recent riots.
I was aware of the border drug wars because they have been in the press but it depresses me to see them. I read about Madero, Huerta, Villa etc as history which I teach my young son
so it depresses me that the revolution actually failed to even transform the society in Mexico.
Why was that? the revolution didnt entirely succeed in ireland but the Republic (church abuse excepted) succeeded in a lot of ways.
I look to find a link I once heard about a Mexican woman who described knowing the old Mexico City as a kind of heaven and find this instead;
What looks to me that you have in Mexico is criminal capitalism, drugs cartels, you have a seemingly prosperous capital with 'liberal' policies where I see this;
Quote:After years of demanding greater political autonomy, residents were given the right to directly elect the Head of Government and the representatives of the unicameral Legislative Assembly by popular vote in 1997. Ever since, the left-wing Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD) has controlled both of them. In recent years, the local government has passed a wave of liberal policies, such as abortion on request to any woman up to 12 weeks into a pregnancy, a limited form of euthanasia, no-fault divorce and same-sex marriage.
so you have a rich city population and poor rural?