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**ClichéGuevara** · 12-04-2011, 12:56 AM

And too much blood has flown from the wrists,
Of the children shamed for those they chose to kiss

**High Nigga Pie** · 12-04-2011, 12:57 AM

Suicide is a self inflicted act, there is not really that much suicide as people like to think. Gays have every right as other people except for marriage.

**ClichéGuevara** · 12-04-2011, 12:58 AM

When 13 year olds are committing suicide it's a big deal.

**High Nigga Pie** · 12-04-2011, 01:02 AM

We obviously do not live ina perfect world, but in porportion to other atrocities in America and around the world, homophobia is not as horrible.

**ClichéGuevara** · 12-04-2011, 01:04 AM

I'm not saying it's as bad as racism but it is still a form of discrimination. There's still a problem to be dealt with.

I want everyone to be treated equally so I'll stand up for the LGBT community in the face of ignorance.

**High Nigga Pie** · 12-04-2011, 01:07 AM

I think that the LGBT community still has work to do, but homophobia has largely been eradicated.

**ClichéGuevara** · 12-04-2011, 01:11 AM

I wouldn't say it's been largely eradicated. It's still a problem.

**Boboulas** · 12-04-2011, 01:11 AM

Quote:executive order 8802 and then especially 9981 were precursors to the civil rights era.

They were not shifts in consciousness as you claim and have lacked to provide any proof of. All you've prooved is that black vets came home expecting better treatment, which i have no problem in agreeing with. Prejudeces were broken during the 40s in part due to the organisation of labour leader of philip randolph with the threat of a march which led to 8802, the riots which took place in 47 cities during the war (the worst was in detroit in the summer of 43) and the liberal civil rights committie set up by truman which later published "To secure these rights".

These were basic, foundational level changes and no shift in consciousness occured in the 40s among whites or blacks, the outcome of the 40s was to set civil rights on the national agenda. There was no shift in consciousness in the 40s and i dont think there was one at all during the CR movement, just chaning the prevailing attitudes of de-facto racism.

Quote:this was the basis of their protest.

No, the basis of the civil rights movement was hundreds of years of being considered less than human. Not some act passed by a president.

And id like to know how your last source belives "the end of World War II was an ideal time to end segregation" when there was literally no challenge to white opinion at all by this point. It was hardly a golden oppurtunity to do anything when at least half the country was entirely hostile to blacks and viewed them as less than human.

All this is nonsense though because you havent proved a very generalizing point that executive order 8802 was somehow a shift in consciousness.

**matt romney** · (This post was last modified: 12-04-2011 01:23 AM by matt romney.)

(12-04-2011 12:57 AM)YaelTheGreat Wrote: Suicide is a self inflicted act, there is not really that much suicide as people like to think. Gays have every right as other people except for marriage.

(12-04-2011 01:07 AM)YaelTheGreat Wrote: I think that the LGBT community still has work to do, but homophobia has largely been eradicated.

Fuck you. Fuck you. aaaaaaaaaand Fuuuuuuck you.

(12-03-2011 10:49 PM)Laz Wrote: i'm not trying to divide the struggle by giving certain groups trophies for being the most fucked over. i'm just saying that the civil rights movement has been disproportionate in gay liberation to others. and that needs to be addressed

this is what I was trying to avoid!

anytime otf and rev are thanking your posts you are more than likely wrong.

(12-04-2011 01:11 AM)Boboulas Wrote:
Quote:executive order 8802 and then especially 9981 were precursors to the civil rights era.

They were not shifts in consciousness as you claim and have.....

let me clarify.

it was a shift of consciousness in the minds of a few individuals that would later change the consciousness of the nation.

on other stuff in your post:

my last source is just stating that from a historical analysis. as the conditions made by the serving of black soldiers allowed for such a movement to exist. not representative of the bigots' opinions a decade or two before that interview happened.

our only disagreement is probably the definition of a shift in consciousness. just semantics. i'm not going to argue that anymore because its distracting from the larger message and our larger agreement (i hope).

my point is, gay veterans can be a major political force for equality. they need to be welcomed.

**Boboulas** · (This post was last modified: 12-04-2011 01:38 AM by Boboulas.)

Quote:anytime otf and rev are thanking your posts you are more than likely wrong.

I couldnt give a fuck who likes whos posts, you thumbs up whore. Now please try to construct an intellegent argument without resorting to these kinds of comments, ill do the same.

Quote:it was a shift of consciousness in the minds of a few individuals

So its not for the oppressed people like you originaly stated? And who were these individuals? Again im just trying to find proof of how some magical shift in consciousness happened in the CR movement, especially in the 40s!

Quote:as the conditions made by the serving of black soldiers allowed for such a movement to exist.

What conditions? How did these "conditions" allow for the CR movement to exist? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!

Quote:our only disagreement is probably the definition of a shift in consciousness.

Well no because were arguing if this magical shift actually happened. I agree with you that homosexuals are given a bad rep and all but if you are going to make claims about history at least be prepared to back it up. I mean why did you even mention the CR movement in relation to the LGBT's struggle for equality? Completely different things laz.

**matt romney** · 12-04-2011, 01:44 AM

i feel that this http://www.library.umass.edu/spcoll/dubois/?page_id=894 addresses your questions.

(12-04-2011 01:34 AM)Boboulas Wrote: I mean why did you even mention the CR movement in relation to the LGBT's struggle for equality? Completely different things laz.

damn.

the homophobia of the forum becomes apparent

**Boboulas** · (This post was last modified: 12-04-2011 01:59 AM by Boboulas.)

PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When you cant argue you shitty weak point anymore, pull a laz and call someone a homophobe.

In the forum crisis thread...

Quote:i feel that this http://www.library.umass.edu/spcoll/dubois/?page_id=894 addresses your questions.

YAY something of no relevence to the era we are talking about. Its pretty easy to shrugg someone of and tell them to go read a load of essays.