Religion 101

[Introcluse]

(07-06-2011 07:13 AM)marioalosangeles Wrote:  I believe in God, and I don't think believing in God means not thinking rationally.
I think not being open minded to other theories is not using your ability to rationalize.
Although I can agree that religion has been used to cause chaos, I cannot blame religion for it... I've explained this millions of times here, I'm sure I don't have to repeat myself, and I'm sure either Mono or HamishFTW will eventually have something to say to me, and if they don't, I sure God touched their hearts lol

Do you think it's right when theists claim absolute certainty, for what they can not be certain of ? I myself think there could very be some kind of creator, however I always emphasise that I can not prove there is a deity as a disclaimer. I never talk like my opinion on the existence of a deity is a conclusive fact the way theists do. To act like something is the universal truth because you 'feel it in your heart" or because "it's written in the holy scriptures" is enormous arrogance. It's this arrogance which increases the contempt towards theists.

Look, we want a lot of things to be true. Most people want world peace, but that doesn't mean there is world peace. There is a huge difference between 'wanting something to be true' and something actually being 'true'

[marioalosangeles]

You follow what you believe to be truth my brotha.
Reason why theist grip so hard onto their beliefs is because
that is their truth. I am not against anyone believing what they want to believe.
The problem imo (and this includes religious people) is when everyone is forcing their truth onto other people. Like when a Jehovah's witness knocks at you door every Saturday when you have told him more than twice, I don't believe in that...Good day. Atheist do the same thing (not all of course) They will continue to push and push the matter in an effort to misinform as many people as possible. Reason I say misinform is not because I am bashing at what they believe, but because they talk about the bible. Quran without knowing what da hell they are talking about.
You have to stand for something. Your job is to find something to believe in based on your own research, and live by it keeping in mind that you could be wrong as everyone else in this world. Even if God himself presented the truth to me, I would still be clueless.
It's kinda hard to make a point when I am getting rushed off the computer, but I hope you get what I mean...

[Djoser]

(07-06-2011 04:31 AM)Gezus Wrote:  hahahaha, i saw that joke coming lol but I thought it would come from Sean hahah.

We need to go deeper...

Guys, the main thing is that to not care what people believe. Religion is a private matter, so treat it as such. Don't get your panties in a bunch as if your religion is your purse and someone is trying to steal it.

[ClichéGuevara]

(07-06-2011 04:31 AM)Gezus Wrote:  hahahaha, i saw that joke coming lol but I thought it would come from Sean hahah.

And that's why I didn't say it haha

[El Mono]

Yeah, your God loves you, why should us heathens make you question that love?

[Introcluse]

You follow what you believe to be truth my brotha.

thats where we are different. I would only claim a belief for what's natural and observable.

Reason why theist grip so hard onto their beliefs is because that is their truth.

it's a subjective opinion, a truth would be something like the color of blood being red which nobody disputes. Subjective opinions and conclusive facts are 2 completely different things. A subjective opinion would me thinking one woman is hot, where as you would might think the same woman is a plain Jane. A conclusive fact would something like her height, which neither of us would/could dispute.

they talk about the bible. Quran without knowing what da hell they are talking about.

Theists haven't got a leg to stand on, with the 'out of context' argument. Both sides cherry pick lines/verses of religious texts to suit a/the point they are making at that time. Theists do it to panegyrise religion, the non-theists do it to castigate it. How can a theist criticise a methodology theists themselves use ? when it works against theists its 'OHH THATS OUT OF CONTEXT !!!" but then you guys are more then happy to use texts from the very same books at your own perogative in whatever context you like to laud religion?

[marioalosangeles]

Quote:thats where we are different. I would only claim a belief for what's natural and observable.

Anyone at any moment can accept whatever theory they want as the truth. That is what you believe in and what you stand for. How can you fight a revolution or fight for something when you have no assurance that what you believe is the truth? Based on your own speculations, you can decide what is true for yourself. There comes a point when you decide what philosophy you will live by, what theory is right to you, and what truth you stand for. There is nothing wrong with that, it is part of your individualism. Like I said, the problem is to push it down peoples throats.

Quote:it's a subjective opinion, a truth would be something like the color of blood being red which nobody disputes. Subjective opinions and conclusive facts are 2 completely different things. A subjective opinion would me thinking one woman is hot, where as you would might think the same woman is a plain Jane. A conclusive fact would something like her height, which neither of us would/could dispute.

Based on opinion you can tell me what is true to you. you scan her with your eyes, the signals begin to hit your brain, and you get all these thoughts and emotions which can only tell you one thing... SHE IS HOT! Now a fair argument would not be, "she is not hot at all" because I would be making a general statement and speaking for everyone else. The right judgement would be..."she is not hot to me" because the fact is, to you she is a Goddess!

Quote:they talk about the bible. Quran without knowing what da hell they are talking about.

idk what people you've been talking about but you got it all mixed up there homie. There are basic stuff which an atheist will just really take out of context. A very common argument is that religious people are ignorant because they live by a book and don't see what's outside of it. We are also called slaves at times. How is that possible when we make the decision to become who we are and we can leave at any moment we please. Not to mention the many different science groups dedicated to creationism young earth, creationism old earth, smart design, and so on...

Another dumb accusation is that Christianity is evil because of it's history... Is that right? so If I go to skid road in Los Angeles right now, everyone else is out there among the homeless except for Christian missions? They are the only one's besides a few organizations. They feed the homeless, they give them shelter..how evil right!?!?
SO crusaders were really doing God's will when Jesus stopped on of his disciples from hurting a roman centurion. Christianity the religion based on a man who did not believe in violence made these men go out there and do what they did? Was that really Christianity or was that somebody's own agenda for power?

[Introcluse]

Anyone at any moment can accept whatever theory they want as the truth.

Theories and conclusive facts are 2 different complete uncomparable things.

That is what you believe in and what you stand for. How can you fight a revolution or fight for something when you have no assurance that what you believe is the truth?

When you see people economically impoverished its visually observable, faith isn't. The Eygpitan revolution was worth fighting for based on facts.. What facts? well the average Eygptian was living on 2 dollars a day under Mubarak, whilst his estimated wealth is in the millions.

There comes a point when you decide what philosophy you will live by, what theory is right to you

yes let's all take a stab in the dark.

and what truth you stand for.

once again, Truth is based on conclusive facts and evidence, not inconclusive theories or guessing games.

idk what people you've been talking about but you got it all mixed up there homie. There are basic stuff which an atheist will just really take out of context.

Its fallacious to say scriptures are taken out of 'out of context', because it has not specified within the books or by clergies that the books have been written within a designated context in the first place !

For example if I wrote a book about military tactics, it's clear it's a manual that should be used within the context of warfare with an enemy at that particular time. However religious scriptures don't just instruct you which deity to worship, but they are divine philosophies which give instructions for every aspect of daily life(who u shudnt fuck, what u shudnt eat etc) and are for eternity.

Another dumb accusation is that Christianity is evil because of it's history... Is that right?

I can agree with you to an extent here. Christiantity isn't that evil, but many people who call themselves Christians have been barbaric. Imperialism which spread Christianity began long after the inception of Christianity(ie when the alleged character of Jesus existed), when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in the 4th century, unlike Islam for example which became a political/militant movement during the life of its protagonist Mohammed............or even with Judaism, you can point to Moses being a warlord.