Lowkey: Can Jews and Muslims ever find peace?

[shakur420]

^That's friction between zionists and Arabs/others who's lands/homes have been colonized though. Don't see how it turns into "politically, Muslims and Jews can't get along". lol, sure, maybe on the surface it looks like that but 5 min of checking gives you a different picture. Toronto may not be the "most multicultural" spot in the world, but it's up there. All sorts of different groups get along, politically, socially and otherwise. The friction between pro-colonialists and anti-colonialists has nothing to do with spiritual beliefs.

[Introcluse]

yes shakur it's all about politics, all these damn politicians are the scourge over the world. It ain't about HOLY LANDS, muslims lie when they say jerusalam is the 3rd holiest place in islam and their original qiblah, hell even jews lie when they say the books of genesis and exodus has yahweh telling em it's their promise land. THE BIGGEST LIE of all is when people saying the dispute over who controls the holy city of jerusalam is over religion, that's not over religion, that's the fault of tourism ! Jerusalem gets 6 millions tourists a year, so that's just man's greed chasing revenue !

[Djoser]

(03-14-2012 10:20 PM)shakur420 Wrote:  ^That's friction between zionists and Arabs/others who's lands/homes have been colonized though. Don't see how it turns into "politically, Muslims and Jews can't get along". lol, sure, maybe on the surface it looks like that but 5 min of checking gives you a different picture. Toronto may not be the "most multicultural" spot in the world, but it's up there. All sorts of different groups get along, politically, socially and otherwise. The friction between pro-colonialists and anti-colonialists has nothing to do with spiritual beliefs.

That's what I meant. A Jewish state and a Muslim state would not get along more than likely due to various interests they have. However, with religion out of the political field, no conflict.

All religions can get along if no one decides to become that extreme zealous bitch that wants to prove everyone wrong.

[shakur420]

^Or that my God is better than yours...

lol, yeah, I get what you're saying but I still don't think a Muslim state and a Jewish state would have much beef simply because of their national religion or whatever. Remember how many deals of "normalization" have been offered to Israel. Those deals don't ask much about religion other than access to religious sites, they talk about an end to colonization and occupation. It's like saying Mexicans are bitter about Texas, Cali, etc. (and being called "illegals" in their homeland) cause they're mostly Catholic, lol. We hate gringos for much better reasons, HAHA.

[1871]

What was that dispute over the holy temple? Vertical or horizontal split or summat. Politics and religion are always inextricably linked. The State of Israel isnt going to cease to exist. The best hope is a two state solution. Getting back to the broader historical/religious question however - heres one take;


Jewish-Muslim Relations, Past & Present
Jewish-Muslim Relations, Past and Present

by Rabbi David Rosen

Few religions have as much in common as Islam and Judaism. As opposed to
Christianity which is very much the product of an interaction between Greek and
Hebrew culture, Judaism has historically remained overwhelmingly rooted in its
Semitic world view and is extremely similar to Islam in its fundamental religious
outlook, structure, jurisprudence and practice. At the heart of the two Faiths is an
ethical-monotheistic vision which determinedly resists any compromise on the idea
of the transcendence and unity of God who is envisaged as just and merciful and
who has revealed a way of life in accordance with these values for the benefit of
human society.

Accordingly Islam and Judaism share the idea of revealed Scripture and even
though they differ over the precise text of such, the Hebrew Pentateuch (the Torah)
and the Koran share much religious narrative as well as injunctions.

They accordingly share many other fundamental religious concepts, such as
reward and punishment relating to a Day of Divine Judgment as well as the belief
in the afterlife, Heaven and Hell and future resurrection. Moreover the structure
and modus operandi of their religious jurisprudential codes of conduct – Shaaria
and Halachah – bear striking similarity.

Both Islam and Judaism are essential theocratic democracies or better,
meritocracies, in as much as they do not have clergy who by virtue of sacrament
are separate from the rest of the community. Religious authority is essentially
a function of individual mastery of the religious sources to be able to guide the
community in accordance with their teachings. While there are of course many
differences in their specific forms, the two Faiths also share the central practices of
prayer, fasting and almsgiving, as well as dietary laws and aspects of ritual purity.
These similarities are most evident in Orthodox Judaism as the encounter with
modernity led to new forms of Jewish religious identity, most evident in the Reform,
Progressive or Liberal streams of Judaism which removed or reinterpreted some of
these more traditional characteristics.

While Islam puts Christians and Jews in one category as “people of the book” with
a protected (albeit secondary) status under Islamic authority; Judaism traditionally
saw Islam as a purer form of ethical monotheism – uncompromised by concepts of
the incarnation; the Trinity; the adoration of saints and the use of effigies.

There are different opinions among scholars regarding the character and origin
of the Jewish communities that the Prophet Mohammed encountered in Arabia.
The Koranic sources would suggest that they were a somewhat non-orthodox if
not schismatic Jewish community. However they shared enough of the message
of the Prophet Mohammed for the latter to assume that the Jews of Medina
would eagerly rally around him. Their failure to do so led to the ensuing discord,
arguments and hostility between them.

The Jews were certainly better off under the Muslim rule than under the Byzantine

November 2003

1

Christians, and it is likely that they also fared better than under the Zoroastrian
Persians. However, while Jews were free to practice their religion without
interference, as indicated a number of restrictive conditions applied ensuring their
subordinate status that were codified in the Pact of ‘Umar.

Medieval Islamic civilization developed into its most productive period between
the years 900 and 1200, and Jewish civilization in the Islamic world followed suit.
During this period, some of the greatest works of Jewish philosophy, grammar, law,
philology, and lexicography were written, in parallel with great advances in these
fields in the Islamic world. Jewish poetry in Hebrew found a renaissance during
this period as well, and its meters, styles, and contents parallel those of its Muslim
Arabic counterpart. Nowhere was this more pronounced than in Spain, where
Jewish civilization flourished along with the flowering of the Islamic and secular
sciences and culture throughout the region, known in Arabic as al-Andalus. The
relatively open society of al-Andalus was reversed and then ended by the coming
of North African armies to help defend against the Spanish Christians, who were
pushing the Muslims southward from their strongholds in the north. Jews were
highly restricted under the Islamist Berber regimes and eventually began moving
northward to newly conquered Christian areas where, for the time being, they were
treated better.

The reversal of Jewish good fortune in Spain was mirrored in other parts of the
Islamic world, where by the thirteenth century the open and humanistic qualities
of Islamic society began to give way to a more feudalistic mentality of rigidity and
control as Islam went on the defensive. Many Jewish communities were forced
into ghettos and in places Jewish and Christian communities were destroyed. As
the Islamic world declined, so too did the Jewish communities within it, and Jewish
intellectual, cultural, and religious creativity generally tended to shift toward the
Jewish communities of Europe. (R. Firestone, “Children of Abraham”, Ktav, 2001)

Nevertheless as a rule the Jewish communities that remained in the Muslim world
were generally protected in keeping with the Pact of ‘Umar and as long as they
accepted their second class status, lived peacefully and cooperatively with their
Muslim neighbors.

The collapse of imperial rule and the rise of modern nationalism led to the clash
between the Jewish nationalist aspiration for self determination in the ancestral
homeland of the Jewish people and the struggle for national self-determination
on the part of the regional and local Arab populations. This territorial conflict has
degenerated in recent times to increasingly assume the character of a religious
conflict.

While not seeking to go into the causes and effects, rights and wrongs of the
political conflict in the Middle East, the increasing religious characterization of
a territorial struggle has come from various quarters, presenting the conflict as
a clash of civilizations between the Muslim world and Western/Christian society
(with extremists, portraying the other/s as devoid of moral character and without
religious legitimacy, with Israel and the Jews portrayed as a hostile “bridgehead”
into the Arab world in particular and the Muslim world in general.

November 2003

2

However the truth of the matter is that what we are witnessing is not a clash of
civilizations as much as a clash within civilizations. It is a clash between those
elements of a religious culture whose sense of historic injury and humiliation leads
to alienation and conflict within their own societies as well as to those outside their
religious culture; and those who seek to constructively engage other societies as
part of world culture and a positive interaction with modernity.

This “clash within civilizations” means that while religious extremists of various
traditions and cultures are (almost always unwittingly) part and parcel of
a “conspiracy of conflict”, the enlightened voices of religion within these traditions
have a responsibility to work together not only to be greater than the sum of their
different parts but also to provide the essential alternative testimony – i.e. that of
interreligious cooperation and mutual respect. In particular, Muslim and Jewish
leaders have a duty to their communities and Faith traditions to counteract the
destructive exploitation of their religious civilizations and to draw their inspiration
from those past examples of the glory of cooperation and collaboration among the
children of Abraham – Muslims, Christians and Jews – for the benefit of all.

- Rabbi Rosen

................................................................................​.....................

There you go.

[shakur420]

I'm sure the beef in Jerusalem - and the surrounding villages/towns - is centered around religious connections to Mosques and Synagogues and shit, lol. Segregation and people getting kicked out of their homes to make room for colonists is just a minor issue.

I wonder how people that make religion central to this conflict deal with the fact that Christians and Jews have been slaughtered, marginalized and cleansed from the area just as hard as Muslims. Especially when you have many Christians and Muslims collaborating openly with the colonists. I mean, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have had a real close relationship with Israel's government, military and intelligence community. As far as I understand, you don't get any more "extreme Islamism" - or whatever it's fashionable to call it these days - than Saudi Arabia and Pakistan's ruling classes. lol

Don't know much about the historic things, but the Rabbi broke it down nicely.