Is War Ever Morally Right/Justified?

[Rick Ross 187]

[Introcluse]

make love not war..........fuck your enemy

[OnlyTheFaithful]

when a world is built upon war it will always be justified, surely war begins when neither will co-operate or debate.

and surely throughout history, from wars come progress in some shape or form? for the majority of people? at the expense of others, but surely the majority is what counts in the bigger picture?

war is out of most peoples hands , perhaps the only thing that matters is joining the better of the evils, but even this is no easy thing to find?

[Asshole]

no war but the class war homie

[shakur420]

Sure. "Liberal" states are "morally justified" in whatever they do. "Totalitarian" states are not justified in anything they do. The "scholarship" on this will enlighten you properly on who is "liberal" and who is "totalitarian". lol

[Boboulas]

Id say yes, but dont feel like arguing the case at the moment.

[RedLove93]

It's not that I think there's necessarily reasons as to why it is justified, it's more that I can't seem to find a convincing argument as to why it's not.

[YaelTheGreat]

A war is only justified, to me, if it is in self defense. I don't agree with other countries sending their own national troops to another nations to "help" the oppressed. If a nation truly feels that these oppressed people need help then they should supply them with weapons, intelligence, resources, etc., not with its own people to use. For example, lets say America honestly wanted to help the Mexican people who are being oppressed by the drug lords, the American people should not put their own forces there, or their own military headqarters, or anything else that is direct involvement. They should offer their weapons, intelligence and resources to help the people succeed in their effort, but that is all. That should be enough to begin a successful revolution.

My reasoning for this is because when corrupt nations intervene, no matter how morally good the original cause was, they will abuse and prolong the involvement that they directly had.

[1871]

Quote:Yael

A war is only justified, to me, if it is in self defense. I don't agree with other countries sending their own national troops to another nations to "help" the oppressed.

WW2? What about international pacts between countries? Genocides?

[YaelTheGreat]

That's why I didn't go in depth, I just named something that happens more often. There are many other cases, such as the genocide on the Jews, that should involve direct involvement, but those happen less often, although surprisingly often,and I was just mentioning things that happen much more.

[shakur420]

When was the last time government officials acted on morals? When they cut social services? When they subsidize arms companies? When they cut taxes for the rich? When they call chemical warfare against peasants "counterinsurgency" programs? When they enact "back to work legislation"? When they allow the outsourcing of labour to help drive down costs? When they give you pay cuts by refusing to increase the minimum wage faster than inflation? I mean, this is how they treat us, is it really serious to believe that they give a fuck about anything moral?

So for example, the British didn't give a fuck about the Jews, they were worried about hitler and fascists gaining power. Where's the morality there? Because on a side note, as a consequence of their power struggle, genocide happened to be stopped? That's moral? Is it? Or is it the excuse given beforehand by the "hawks" and the excuse given afterwards by the "doves"?

And on Mexico, arms and intelligence, US and Mexican governments working side by side with cartels is what had taken the problem from quiet, systematic corruption to all out warfare in the streets. I've been speaking to my brother in law the last couple weeks, some crazy shit's been revealed, and I've learned a bit about what the fuck is going on over there, but we can talk in another thread about that if you want. I know you were just using an example, but it's not a good one. Use a different one, like Syria maybe. Arming the opposition there might be a good idea, might not, but I think it's arguable. Oh but wait, that's exactly why the "west" is not arming them, because they're so concerned about what might happen with those arms afterwards. Such touching morality on their part, concern for Syrians and all. I mean, it's not like anyone's worried that arming a democratic Arab state would be against their interests, lol. Nah, it's moral considerations for the Syrian people.

"Moral" wars, I don't know. I agree that violence can be justified, a lot in my opinion, but I have zero faith in people with power and the governments - or whatever, institutions if we need a fancy word - in front of them. This is a good read.
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199401--02.htm

[1871]

Quote:So for example, the British didn't give a fuck about the Jews, they were worried about hitler and fascists gaining power.

Incorrect - unless Frank Foley and many others didnt count. And why wouldnt they be worried about Hitler and the fascists gaining power?

Quote:Where's the morality there? Because on a side note, as a consequence of their power struggle, genocide happened to be stopped? That's moral?

A genocide didnt 'happen to be stopped' as a 'consequence' or a 'side note' but as a direct result of that struggle. The extermination of the Jews - and other political enemies - was at the heart of the Nazi ideology. Thats what that war was about. Obviously you have no understanding of WW2 - or the history of that struggle - but that doesnt surprise me.

The idea that WW2 was merely a 'power struggle' between two competing imperialist powers - is more nonsense.

hahahahahaha

more SHAKUROLOGY 'wacko-ness'

Re;Syria. as if you know where the arms were supplied from.....???

No dount if they were being armed youd be denouncing the west saying how hypocritical their pronouncements about 'peace initiatives' and seeking a peaceful resolution were.

Funny how you manage to live in the 'west' since you despise it so much.