Immortal Technique - Hypocrite or Hero?? What Do You Think?

[shakur420]

Sorry. I was being a little sarcastic with the whole "evil socialist agenda".

[Rebel Assault]

conclusion. tech is everything but a hypocrite and haters can suck a dick =D

[messinjure]

more money equals more opportunity .
it goes back to the story of the RING.
the ring itself(money) has no good or evil power. it is a mass of energy.
now when it is picked up(money) it may be used for creation or destruction.
without it we are "powerless",and that is the reality.
and the aquiring of this energy(money) by Immortal or moore is ,i feel,being used for creation.
his amounting of wealth cannot be compared to a pop star that is intentionally misleading youth and getting rich.
his message speaks for itself and his earnings from it are made in a positive nature.
we must seize to judge folks on monetary status and judge only their character.
I only speak for his music.I never met the guy,

[japanesefission]

(03-19-2010 07:14 PM)A.M.S Wrote:  

(03-19-2010 03:30 PM)japanesefission Wrote:  I think it's pretty obvious.

Fact - Moore & Tech make lots of money. Moore & Tech invest it. Moore & Tech do what they do because they earn a pretty penny for it. Yes, it does make them hypocritical and contradictory. Too bad. That's what happens when you try to play the system...you look stupid. Tech, nor Moore are anything special, more of the same from the same old breed of Soviet funded seperatist groups.

And I'm pretty sure Tech does not care as he takes your $15 to the bank.

He is not about the money, he has clearly shown that... the money he makes, most of it goes back out as a way of treating those less fortunate...
He's got fields / orphange he's helping...
You money is in other words going to a charity --
Yeah some of it goes to feed his family, and it would be stupid for us to think that he deserves nothing of what he makes... Not like he's with some huge coorporation, and he just puts lyrics down.. and goes in studio and the rest is done by men in black suits... nope he does it all

Everything in regards to tech and money i've seen.. is "its up to you", you can donate and be helpful, or you can't... you can buy my music, or fuck it download it off the internet (he says that in obnoxious lots of times)
You made the $15 dollar comment seem as if he stole the $15 and doesn't give a fuck about you while taking it to the bank... no you GAVE that $15 to him, and i'm sure he's more than grateful as he has said in multiple interviews and even songs

You cannot justify something inherently wrong, no matter how you try to mask it. I don't know why you are bothering trying to make excuses. I make no excuse as to who I am, and don't bother - because their is no point. If Tech is so morally wrecked over capitalism...why participate and help fuel it?

His life is an image, thus it is a business. His image generates and extrapolates monies from all over the world and does such for no other purpose. Opening an orphanage in Afghanistan is nice, but there are literally thousands, and have gotten bigger donations from people who make a whole helluva lot less. Foreign deminers get shot/blownup/killed everyday trying to clear roads - #1 biggest killer of people in Afghanistan is roadside bombs - they are everywhere that is no Kabul. The sad part? The only thing they got paid was room & board.

So, it leaves us with a paradox really. Do we revere the man who took the time out of schedule for humanity? Or do we revere the man who scheduled his time for humanity? I prefer the latter. Tech has done wonderful work but it's barely a scratch when it comes to freeing himself from the capitalist machine.

And plenty of underground artists release their work for free. A Black Rose Burial not only released all their songs for free at launch, but posted their tabs/chords/drum locks on their website, practically giving away their sound - and refuse to sign to a label so they can put out the music they want to. It's nice and commendable and it speaks a lot for them as people, but let's not get confused as far as motive goes.

I like Tech's work occasionally, but am not in the business of making excuses for anyone. He co-manages a label for one reason - MONEY.

And why wouldn't you thank anyone who gives you money?

[Fuzzly Bear]

I'm sure another reason for managing a label is so that he can do whatever he wants musically.

[Rebel Assault]

"He co-manages a label for one reason - MONEY"...so he can put it to constructive use. if he really wanted to make more he wouldve and couldve signed to a major label and sold out. of course you want to paint him as simply being about the money, but 99.9% of the people here are smart enough to understand the ends justify the means.
his message might not be politically corrects and might be sometimes violent but thats how hip hop can be and should be...raw, straight up, radical, an emotionally charged drive to mobilize the people toward a movement (peaceful or violent depending on the situation), wise, political, knowledgeable, slammin' fucking beats! and lets not forget this guy is telling people to go ahead and download his music.

[shakur420]

(03-21-2010 08:56 PM)japanesefission Wrote:  If Tech is so morally wrecked over capitalism...why participate and help fuel it?

Opening an orphanage in Afghanistan is nice, but there are literally thousands, and have gotten bigger donations from people who make a whole helluva lot less. Foreign deminers get shot/blownup/killed everyday trying to clear roads - #1 biggest killer of people in Afghanistan is roadside bombs - they are everywhere that is no Kabul. The sad part? The only thing they got paid was room & board.

So, it leaves us with a paradox really. Do we revere the man who took the time out of schedule for humanity? Or do we revere the man who scheduled his time for humanity?

I'm glad to see that you're not shying away from rational discussion. You bring up some very important points and questions. Respect for that.

Now I just wanna say that I don't think that anyone who's reached a certain level of maturity will say that Tech is "the best person on the planet". I think it's more of a case of somebody in the music world who's made some major impact on the industry and is famous in the underground as well as with artists themselves, who speaks openly and passionately about issues that concern 99% of the population yet are ignored by 99% of the media. Adding fuel to the fire, many people feel that the their governments do not represent them where these issues are concerned. Personally, I feel that he's the best representative for me and my views in the industry. If there's anyone that I would support, it would be him. Because I know that any money, promotion, labor, etc. goes towards things like orphanages and putting economies back in to the people's hands (nationalizing).

No doubt that there are people who have less and do so much more. I mean, just look around you - paramedics, firefighters, teachers, etc. The guy who picks up your garbage every week does quite a lot for society, and though he might get paid pretty alright, he is ostracized by society. It's fucked up, but listen to Tech's lyrics, listen to the progression of his interviews. If the orphanage is brought up in an interview, he quickly begins talking about Afghanistan and what the people go through, the situation and environment in which they live. If you study a bit into the topics he has brought up in songs and interviews, you see that the motive must be to educate people. If the motive for talking about certain issues was money, it wouldn't make sense to bring up issues like corruption, poverty and desperation at every opportunity.

(03-21-2010 08:56 PM)japanesefission Wrote:  His life is an image, thus it is a business. His image generates and extrapolates monies from all over the world and does such for no other purpose.

You see people like KRS-1, Tupac, Lowkey, Public Enemy, etc. that talk about these issues so much. Do you think the reason that their messages hit home is because they are motivated by money or passion? I think if you were to look at their careers from a financial perspective, you would probably conclude that talking about imperialism and corruption all the time is what hindered them from making even more money and being even more successful. Think about it like a CEO. People pay for what they want, what they like. It's that simple. It's a basic principle of business. No matter what the product is, if appeals to people because of the marketing, promotion or salesperson - it will sell. Period. That is a fundamental of business. Now, sure, with the rise of protest against imperialism, corruption, slaughter, etc. in the last decade or so, it seems to be a more popular topic. But do people want to hear about this shit and and talk about it 24/7? Of course not, so if your motives are money, you would bring up these topics in moderation and move on to stuff that is more palatable and enjoyed by the people. Only in the last 2, 3 years have things like bling, women and riches begun to be criticized by artists in the mainstream. Tech was saying fuck that before it was "cool" to do so. What would the motive be? Not money, I think.

(03-21-2010 08:56 PM)japanesefission Wrote:  And plenty of underground artists release their work for free....It's nice and commendable and it speaks a lot for them as people, but let's not get confused as far as motive goes.

Now this just comes to an understanding of what he does. When you choose something that is your occupation, your form of income, obviously you go to work everyday because of that - income. So you can pay your rent, buy your groceries, get to work and enjoy whatever it is that you can. It's no secret that Tech's income comes from making music and the things that go with that - touring, merchandise, etc. The question is, why does he do things the way he does? For money or something else? Like I said above, does he talk about Chechnya, slave labor, gentrification, industry corruption, freemasonry, political hypocrisy and common decency because it increases his bank statement? Does he do benefit shows for Haiti, the Sikh Massacre (1984) and Palestine because his profits will soar? Check the shit out and see for yourself. Just because I cook for a living doesn't mean that when I spend that extra time to train somebody, give them hints, and tricks, that I have money on my mind, does it?. I can train people to work for me, or I can train them to better themselves, increase their skills and become more valuable. I'm on a salary, the money is the same either way. What then, are my motives for passing on what I've learned and allowing people to be in situations which will help them elevate? What are my motives when I tell an employee that they are good enough now that they can go and get a job in almost any kitchen? That they should look out for themselves first, and not stick around my kitchen because they respect me and don't want to disappoint. What are my motives for that? Surely not money. So to look at me and say that I train my cooks because I get paid to is absurd. You haven't looked at how I train them and the relationship that I have with them. That's the whole story. Just because I get paid to do something doesn't mean that that's the only reason I do it. You get it?

(03-21-2010 08:56 PM)japanesefission Wrote:  He co-manages a label for one reason - MONEY.

His position at the label is not suspect to me, at all. Because it's an independent label, I'm sure the salaries are not astronomical. But no doubt that his annual income is higher because he receives a salary. Oh wait. Do you actually know that he receives a salary? Do you know that he doesn't make a commission off sales only? If your job at a factory is to work on the assembly line, but the boss adds cleanup to your daily duties, does it not seem fair to increase your wage for the extra work you are now doing? How can you be so sure that the motive for taking that position is money and not creative control and the ability to bring up others who may otherwise not get the opportunity? Just because he's paid a salary for doing it doesn't mean that that's the reason he took the position. Especially when you don't know the details of the salary. Take Gay-Z's 2 year stint at Def Jam as CEO or whatever it was. Do you think that he took that position for money? Why? Gay-Z was desperate to add a couple million to the hundreds of millions he already had? Or were his motives more likely along the lines of gaining the experience, the contacts, respect and the ability to add that position to his resume? Think about it.

Rebel Assault posted the best reference to show people what Tech's motives are for making the music he makes - education. He would rather that the message gets spread than make money from it.

If you just do a bit of research, check interviews, lyrics, etc. you will find that the most reoccurring theme is to educate yourself - to go and learn more about the subjects he brings up - to come up with your own ideas, views and opinions. That doesn't seem like a very capitalist-minded scheme. The simplest capitalist plan includes finding (or creating) the necessity for something and providing the means to fill that necessity for a profit. The advocation of "thinking for yourself" is rarely promoted by a capitalist endeavor. Or am I mistaken?
http://www.immortaltechnique.co.uk/Threa...n-Jun-2008

[96_impala_ss]

(03-21-2010 11:17 PM)HamishFTW Wrote:  I'm sure another reason for managing a label is so that he can do whatever he wants musically.

He has said a million times he is independent because he wants the rights to his masters and full control of what he makes. It has nothing to do with the money, and he has mentioned it in his album songs and radio freestyles. Even in the Watch Out Freestyle (which became the Watch Out Remix on 3rd World) he says

Immortal Technique Wrote:The hood is not stupid, we know the mathematics
I make double what I would going gold on Atlantic
'Cause EMI, Sony, BMG, Interscope,
Would never sign a rapper with the white house in the scope
They push pop music like a religion, anorexic celebrity driven
Financial fantasy fiction

Now let me break it down for you...

Immortal Technique Wrote:The hood is not stupid, we know the mathematics , I make double what I would going gold on Atlantic

He's basically saying the big 4 record companies keep the money for themselves and just line their wallets with it. They don't give back to the community or help out, they just keep it and extort you. That's why a lot of rappers always move around labels. Such as Noreaga/N.O.R.E. He lost the Noreaga name because his label owned it. The label he started out with abused his ass and he realized that he wasn't getting shit. He still calls himself Noreaga, but artistically he HAS to be known and credited as N.O.R.E.

Immortal Technique Wrote:They push pop music like a religion, anorexic celebrity driven, Financial fantasy fiction

Case in point.... Lil Wayne. This dude talks about having Bentleys and Rolls Royces and having "No Ceilings" Because his money doesnt fit or whatever. Every mainstream rapper we have deemed as hot is because Sony/BMG UMG WMG and/or EMI have pushed these rappers into the spotlight. If they are backed by them, they will surely find an audience and hard core fans.

Even Temperamento, an underground Boricua rapper from Rhode Island says it.

Temperamento Wrote:Por que tienes el dinero y tienes el bling, no puede decir que puedes competir contra mi. Simplemente te promocionaron, y la cancion era tan mierda que se lo aprendieron hasta los retardados

Translation being

Quote: Just because you have the money and you have the bling, doesn't mean that you can compete against me. Simply put they promoted you, and the song was such a piece of shit that even the mentally retarded people were able to learn the lyrics.

To put this on point... Immortal Technique is not a Hypocrite, but in the end we all have to put food on the table. It would be ridiculous to say that he doesnt deserve to eat and that his family should starve in the middle of nowhere. We have two basic needs... Food and shelter. Immortal Technique not only provides that for himself and associates but does so for those who are less fortunate in Afghanistan and Latin America. I highly doubt we'll see him driving a Mercedes Benz or a BMW. More than likely he probably drives a Chevrolet or a Volkswagen. Something simple.

As far as Michael Moore... Fuck him. He's a pompous ass. I have never heard him put his money where his mouth is. If he really wants the U.S. to have a major public transportation system, how come he doesnt try to fund one? How come he keeps talking of its benefits, yet I have to pay close to $2 to ride my local bus? He bloats of so many things, yet he doesnt do shit about it. I want to see him actually say Ok, the money I made from (insert movie here) will go to lower bus fares, to build more railroads, shit to at least find alternative fuels.

[Fuzzly Bear]

Thank you for that eye opening little essay impala, but I'm pretty sure that by now we are all quite familiar with the music industry. Dinosaurs are dying.

[ethanmister]

(03-20-2010 10:09 PM)messinjure Wrote:  more money equals more opportunity .
it goes back to the story of the RING.
the ring itself(money) has no good or evil power. it is a mass of energy.
now when it is picked up(money) it may be used for creation or destruction.
without it we are "powerless",and that is the reality.
and the aquiring of this energy(money) by Immortal or moore is ,i feel,being used for creation.
his amounting of wealth cannot be compared to a pop star that is intentionally misleading youth and getting rich.
his message speaks for itself and his earnings from it are made in a positive nature.
we must seize to judge folks on monetary status and judge only their character.
I only speak for his music.I never met the guy,

All im gonna say is that powerful words are much more powerful then money and for the goals tech is trying to accomplish, money is a useless factor.

[kcoll]

tec has stated that he wants to make enougth money to run a farm in his native land and employ local people to be self suficient. he has more talent than 99% of the rappers out their so if he was it this game for the money he would sign with a major record lable and reap the benefits. he uses his music as a political plaform to voice his opinions of the world with out interference from mainstream media- thats the definition of keepin it real.listen to what he says (song philosiphy of poverty) and he explains how it is not part of african/latino culture to be poor.also through his music he has opened up a lot of peoples minds to the true power structure of the world

[shakur420]

(05-25-2010 03:25 AM)kcoll Wrote:  ...if he was it this game for the money he would sign with a major record lable and reap the benefits.

Let's not get it twisted. It's been made pretty clear in the last decade that independent artists are able to make a lot more money than artists signed to corporate labels. There's only some artists like Madonna, Metallica, U2, etc. that have reached a point in their careers where they receive significant percentages of sales, and if they even get advances, they are probably astronomical. Tech's made it pretty clear that he's made more money being independent than if he had an average deal that most artists get with a corporate-owned label. Read/watch through the interviews
http://www.immortaltechnique.co.uk/Forum-Interviews

This is a wicked breakdown of an average situation. They use a a group of 3 artists, I believe. Even if it was the exact same deal for just one artist, 60 grand for 3 years work and possible the option of another $180,000 (if the album goes higher than gold) is just not a lot of money. Not at all.
http://131.193.153.231/www/issues/issue6...index.html

Another breakdown.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Parish Smith (EPMD) mentions it in this Conspiracy interview (I think).
http://conspiracyworldwide.podomatic.com...8_24-08_00