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**Boboulas** · 12-12-2009, 11:29 PM

Lenin was a right wing deviation of the socialist movement and was regarded so by the mainstream marxists, somehow we forgot who those marxists were because they lost and obviously we only remember the guys who won (lenin and his ilk).

The idea that the radical intellagencia were gonna exploit popular movements to seize state power and then to use that state power to whip the society that they chose, which was quite inconsistent with marxism as understood by the left marxists of the day. Even trotsky said so up until 1917.

And when lenin came back to russia in 1917 he took a very different line from his past line (look at his works before 1917 and then after 1917). It became kind of libertarian, thats when he came out with the april thesis and thats when he wrote state and revoultion all of which were more in the mainstream of the time.

Then lenin comes into power in october 1917 and some of his first moves were to destroy the societs in the factory councils. Infact most things he did or wrote after he took power were very different from his writings before october 1917 which shows that they were opportunistic and he knew that if he was going to gain power he would need to go along with the popular currents whoch were developing which were actualy socialist, he reverted to his pre-1917 vanguardism which would eliminate the organs of workers control which in effect was a move to destroy socialism (the soviet councils).

**Rick Ross 187** · 12-12-2009, 11:33 PM

Bullshit Chomsky argument regurgitated.

Its hilarious, Chomsky opposes Lenin but supports Turkey.

**Boboulas** · (This post was last modified: 12-12-2009 11:40 PM by Boboulas.)

So you deny lenis opportunism?

lenins*

**psy0nyd3** · 12-13-2009, 12:16 AM

Lenin is to true socialism what George Bush is to capitalism.

**Rick Ross 187** · 12-13-2009, 12:17 AM

If by oppurtunistic, you mean seizing every chance to bring Revolution and Socialism to Russia, no.

If you mean he pretended to be a Socialist, then yes i deny he is

**Rev** · 12-13-2009, 12:42 AM

Socialist/Anarchist

**INSURGENCYmusic** · 12-13-2009, 01:18 AM

Constitutionalist/Libertarian

**Rick Ross 187** · 12-13-2009, 01:33 AM

(12-13-2009 01:18 AM)INSURGENCYmusic Wrote: Constitutionalist/Libertarian

Glad to see you are upholding a piece of paper written by and for white rich slaver owners.

Fuck Amerika and its constitution.

**Gezus** · (This post was last modified: 12-13-2009 01:41 AM by Gezus.)

^ Fuck russia. Yea don't like it do u? Then don't diss on other peoples beliefs. seriously wtf

? your going to diss on his political beliefs? besides, who said he was talking about America's constitution ... even though that is probably what he is talking about.

**huey3man** · 12-13-2009, 01:48 AM

well im not that into history like bob but how can u put stalin in the same row with karl marx and friedrich engels. i cant remember marx or engels killing millions of people. and fuck what he maybe did good. he's one - maybe the - biggest murderer in history. hitler built nearly ever german freeway back then which is still very useful today but he's still the most criminal son of a bitch that ever lived.

**INSURGENCYmusic** · (This post was last modified: 12-13-2009 01:52 AM by INSURGENCYmusic.)

(12-13-2009 01:33 AM)bailey_187 Wrote:
(12-13-2009 01:18 AM)INSURGENCYmusic Wrote: Constitutionalist/Libertarian

Glad to see you are upholding a piece of paper written by and for white rich slaver owners.

Fuck Amerika and its constitution.

I understand where you are coming from. Yea the constitution was written by slave owners. I saw that hypocrisy a long time ago. But none the less, the U.S. constitution is probably the greatest document ever written by man. There is nothing more important that Freedom and that is what that document tries to achieve for ALL men and women. I don't know how anyone can disagree with freedom. Freedom is your god given right as a human being. The people that run "Amerika" now, are the enemies of the constitution. So don't judge the constitution based on what the US is doing right now.

(12-13-2009 01:40 AM)Gezus23 Wrote: ^ Fuck russia. Yea don't like it do u? Then don't diss on other peoples beliefs. seriously ? your going to diss on his political beliefs? besides, who said he was talking about America's constitution ... even though that is probably what he is talking about.

That's fine man. It's ok. I don't care if he disses my beliefs. It's no big deal, tbh, I don't think he understands what i believe in to begin with.

**Boboulas** · 12-13-2009, 01:51 AM

Lets try not crucify him, if he wants to praise stalin then thats his thing.

Im still waiting for his responce to my question though.