How the West De-Democratised the Middle East

[1871]

'Not explicitly hateful' Hmm. Thats how misleading it is -

Syncretic hits the bullseye. A fitting description

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretic_p...ic_fascism

Shakur420 - you have a veneer of 'progressiveness' which doesnt even cover your right wing reactionary bullshit. You are a complete twister. In fact Ive seen straighter lines in a bag of hula hoops.

[YaelTheGreat]

Thats not hateful, thats asshole, there is a difference. He's talking shit, not telling you that the religion or region you belong to is intrinctly bad and wrong and that you should quit and if not you are a blubbering moron who deserves to banned from society.

[shakur420]

Yeah, I'm blinded, by the fact that our crimes far outweigh the crimes of the small time thugs you guys cite as the reason to not be so "anti-western". Facts that are backed up by human rights groups, and official state doctrines outlined in policy papers, national security strategies and moves to dominate the globe. People wanna pretend that being unbiased means treating local criminals and global criminals as equals, that's fine, they can do that. It's the reason nobody in the world takes these views seriously. Nobody outside of cushy, well developed bubbles that are insulated from the real world.

Exactly how is it that I'm "anti-western"? Because I spit the same conclusions as the western intelligence community? Say like how "terrorists" are motivated by economic and military grievances? Or is it when I point out that the mainstream media refuses to discuss near unanimous votes at the UN when they talk incessantly about the "peace process"? That information is listed on the UN website, is the UN "anti-western" too? I repeat the words of people like George Orwell and founding father John Jay, were they "anti-western" too? Former high level officials in the US talk about how their country is biggest violator of human rights in the world, are they "anti-western" too? I'm going to the baseball game tomorrow, but I couldn't give a fuck about the NHL playoffs. Does this make me "anti-Canadian"? I call quarterbacks pussies for sliding (and I know why they do, I understand the position), does this make me "anti-football"? What a load of bullshit.

As for how I responded to your links son, lol, you should've read my post. I explained that since the argument you made was irrelevant to the discussion, the references you posted - whether they support your position or not - are useless.

[YaelTheGreat]

But the thing that they are saying is that while quoting all those people you are undervaluing the atrocious human rights violations of these "small time thugs". These Islamic radical regimes are extremeley dangerous and harmful in their region. Of course America and Europe are more far reaching, that doesn't minimize the effect of these regimes. We are not talking about your local youths robbing people, or some gang member beating up kids for fun, we are talking about a systematic dissemination of human rights in a region and the abdonment of morality, thats not small time.

[1871]

Quote:Shakur420

Exactly how is it that I'm "anti-western"? Because I spit the same conclusions as the western intelligence community?

[shakur420]

They like to ignore how those same "Islamist extremists" we're funded, organized, nurtured and supported in the first place. It all leads back. Motherfuckers wanna shit on Assad but don't wanna talk about how he was working for the US. How is this undervaluing anything? You wipe the US military, political and economic assets away, get rid of them and human rights abuses drop immediately by a significant number.

There's been studies on the correlation between US aid and human rights abuses, starting back in 80s. As US aid goes up, so did atrocities. When support was pulled for Indonesia, atrocities in East Timor declined immediately. Same with South Africa. As Turkey finished it's slaughter of a few hundred thousand people and wound down it's "counter insurgency" program, aid (arms actually) from the US went down, just like it went up when those atrocities did. This is not some ideological shit, researchers and rights groups have monitored this shit. It's not some benign playground where "mistakes" are made. Where's the "undervaluing" in pointing out that the small time criminals, even their atrocities lead back to the US, usually?

You really think this is what they're saying, that I "undervalue" shit? The guy who tells me that like the police, you gotta make deals with these small time criminals sometimes? That's why you have "mistakes" like saddam being given WMD and support to crush internal rebellions. This is the level of logic from that kid, it's transparent, nobody in the world buys it. lol, it's bullshit. We buy it cause we're insulated, there's a reason why people like Mandela and Gandhi identified with the Palestinians, because they have the perspective of victims. We, naturally identify with luxurious populations who live in a bubble and don't remember how Hamas, Hezbollah, the taliban and al qaeda were created. We don't care how our actions affect others (decrying Assad and dismissing US goals to shape the Middle East with dictators who will act as "local cops on the beat" is a clear indication of this), and how our "civilized" existence is built on the broken backs of defenseless people.

Look at the flow of discussion. When examples are given to qualify these things, the response from 1 dude is "you're anti-western" or "the Ayatollah himself couldn't have said it better", shit like that. The other dude brings up the crimes of say, Mandela and points out that Gandhi wasn't an angel. In both cases, none of the facts are disputed, none of the sources are refuted, and all of a sudden I support dictators or some shit. That's the level of "argument" they present. lol

[1871]

'wanna shit on Assad'. Listen to yourself fool. Assad shits on himself you lick it off.

the level of your arguments;

Quote:Shakur420
Like here where your links are meant to support the position you presented, a position that's irrelevant as it doesn't address the article, or any of the points or facts presented in it.

And then

Quote:Shakur420
Why did I ignore your references? Why did I dismiss your point? Because it's useless here

do you know about Mandela. You were probably riding on your trike then. Shithead.

[shakur420]

That's what I'm talking about. Nothing countering the points I made, the situations I referenced, nothing addressing the substance. I'm supposed to take people like this seriously? When they talk about how I'm "anti-western"?

[shakur420]

My argument is, if we're talking about the effort of corporations to convince the population that climate change is a "liberal hoax", and you come in saying "yeah, but look at all the bad things liberal politicians do", along with references to back up that claim, I can dismiss it without checking your references, can't I? It has nothing to do with the topic.

[shakur420]

Is Human Rights Watch "anti-western" too? Just wondering. I'd like to make sure the standard for credible sources is met.
http://www.hrw.org/node/101504/section/4

[1871]

Quote:Shakur420
Like here where your links are meant to support the position you presented, a position that's irrelevant as it doesn't address the article, or any of the points or facts presented in it.

And then

Quote:Shakur420
Why did I ignore your references? Why did I dismiss your point? Because it's useless here

1. You admit you didnt read the links.

2. Having admitted you didnt read the links you say they didnt address the points raised ?

hahahahahahahahahahahaha


Great logic.

So now you are telepathic as well as narcissistic?

Re; the above report - yes this situation has been refferred to both on the Taliban Thread and previous RAWA threads - but as you are not clicking on the links or watching the videos you obviously missed them.

[Rick Ross 187]

death to the dictators

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(04-14-2012 01:44 AM)shakur420 Wrote:  There's been studies on the correlation between US aid and human rights abuses, starting back in 80s. As US aid goes up, so did atrocities. When support was pulled for Indonesia, atrocities in East Timor declined immediately. Same with South Africa. As Turkey finished it's slaughter of a few hundred thousand people and wound down it's "counter insurgency" program, aid (arms actually) from the US went down, just like it went up when those atrocities did. This is not some ideological shit, researchers and rights groups have monitored this shit. It's not some benign playground where "mistakes" are made. Where's the "undervaluing" in pointing out that the small time criminals, even their atrocities lead back to the US, usually?

yeah, USA should stop giving guns to these bastards, i agree

but atrocities and massacres can happen without American guns

Rwanda they used clubs and shit i think, i dno

The Serbs tried to wipe out the Bosnians with Yugoslavia's army stockpiles. Im not sure where Tito bought his guns from. They made some themselves, prob bought some from the USA at some point but they didnt sell to the Serb paramilitary units or the Yugoslav army when it had sided with the Serb nationalists

im not really sure what we are arguing about here actually

ill add one more thing. USA removing aid to Indonesia and allowing East Timor its freedom was a grievance for Al Qaeda and one of the reasons stated for the Bali bombings. Al Qaeda got pissed that America stopped intervening (although they should of in the first place), who would of thought. i dno how thats relevant tho