Hijab

[shakur420]

lol, except that when you use the word "dope" to refer to something, like a music video in this forum, what we mean is that it's good. Did that go over your head or did you just ignore the point of the example?

[1871]

of course 'dope' means that its a reference to being 'good' - its a reference to feeling of the narcotic effect hence its use. its an explicit connection to the same euphoric effect induced by narcotics - as the links explained. The drug being 'dope' and the effect being 'dope'. Its an adjectival emphasis that refers to the noun.

Quite clear you didnt understand the meaning of the origins of the term you yourself quoted. Shot yourself in the foot again.

Your analogy however is false in the first place.The qualitative moral definition dictates the action re; hijab. A screening of the eyes; modesty. The Quranic reference is not merely to the womans bosom but to the 'ornaments' - whatever they are. Hence the hair, hence the eyes, and hence to the hijab reference meaning as an act of 'screening', that is, a 'veil over' - hence the casting down of eyes - so it refers to more than specific a 'garment' covering;

Quote:According to Islamic scholarship, hijab is given the wider meaning of modesty, privacy, and morality. The Qur'an mentions the use of covering and veiling with the words khimār (خمار) and jilbāb (جلباب), not hijab. Still another definition is metaphysical, where al-hijab refers to "the veil which separates man or the world from God."

Hijab is to Muslims what Norton is to the internet. Its the Firewall of morality. Its an open invitation to every hacker on the face of the planet.


Either the quranic reference is to a covering of the head or it isnt. obviously many think it is or they would not cover their heads.

quote;


Chapter 2

The Qur’an and Hijab

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier.



The First Verse



In Chapter 24 known as an-Nūr (the Light), in verse 30, Allah commands Prophet Muhammad as follows:



قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ يَغُضُّوْا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَ يَحْفَظُوْا فُرُوْجَهُمْ, ذَلِكَ أَزْكَى لَهُمْ.



“Say to the believing men that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them.”



This is a command to Muslim men that they should not lustfully look at women (other than their own wives); and in order to prevent any possibility of temptation, they are required to cast their glances downwards.This is known as “hijabof the eyes”.



Then in the next verse, Allah commands the Prophet to address the women:



قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَ يَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَهُنَّ...



“Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste)…”



This is a similar command as given to the men in the previous verse regarding “hijab of the eyes”.



This hijab of eyes is similar to the teaching of Jesus where he says, “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, you shall not commit adultery. But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”[2] So if you see a Muslim casting his/her eyes downwards when he/she is talking to a member of opposite sex, this should not be considered as rude or an indication of lack of confidence — he/she is just abiding by the Qur’anic as well as Biblical teaching.



* * * * *



After “hijab of the eyes” came the order describing the dress code for women:



وَ لاَ يُبْدِيْنَ زِيْنَتَهُنَّ إِلاَّ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَ لْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلىَ جُيُوْبِهِنَّ...



“...and not display their beauty except what is apparent, and they should place their khumur over their bosoms...”



There are two issues about this sentence.





(1) What is the meaning of “khumur” used in this verse?



Khumurخُمُرٌ is plural of khimarخِمَارٌ, the veil covering the head. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.



Al-Munjid, which is the most popular dictionary in the Arab world, defines al-khimar as “something with which a woman conceals her head—ما تغطى به المرأة رأسها .” Fakhru ’d-Din al-Turayhi in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn (which is a dictionary of Qur’anic and hadith terms) defines al-khimar as “scarf, and it is known as such because the head is covered with it.”[3]



So the word khimar, by definition, means a piece of cloth that covers the head.







(2) Then what does the clause “placing the khumur over the bosoms” mean?



According to the commentators of the Qur’an, the women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the two ends tucked behind and tied at the back of the neck, in the process exposing their ears and neck. By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears, the neck, and the upper part of the bosom also.[4]



This is confirmed by the way the Muslim women of the Prophet’s era understood this commandment of Almighty Allah. The Sunni sources quote Ummu ’l-mu’minin ‘A’isha, the Prophet’s wife, as follows: “I have not seen women better than those of al-Ansar (the inhabitants of Medina): when this verse was revealed, all of them got hold of their aprons, tore them apart, and used them to cover their heads...”[5]



The meaning of khimar and the context in which the verse was revealed clearly talks about concealing the head and then using the loose ends of the scarf to conceal the neck and the bosom. It is absurd to believe that the Qur’an would use the word khimar (which, by definition, means a cloth that covers the head) only to conceal the bosom with the exclusion of the head! It would be like saying to put on your shirt only around the belly or the waist without covering the chest!



Finally the verse goes on to give the list of the mahram – male family members in whose presence the hijabis not required, such as the husband, the father, the father-in-law, the son(s), and others.





The Second Verse



In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:



يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ...



“O Prophet! Say toyour wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.”





What is the meaning of “jalabib”?



Jalabibجَلاَبِيْبٌis the plural of jilbabجِلْبَابٌ, which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.



Al-Munjid, for instance, defines jilbab as “the shirt or a wide dress—القميص أو الثوب الواسع.” While al-Turayhi, in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, defines it as “a wide dress, wider than the scarf and shorter than a robe, that a woman puts upon her head and lets it down on her bosom...”[6]



This means that the Islamic dress code for women does not only consist of a scarf that covers the head, the neck and the bosom; it also includes the overall dress that should be long and loose.



So, for instance, the combination of a tight, short sweater with tight-fitting jeans with a scarf over the head does not fulfill the requirements of the Islamic dress code.





Notes:

[2] The Gospel of Matthew, chap. 5, verses 27-28.

[3] Al-Munjid (Beirut: Daru ’l-Mashriq, 1986) p. 195; at-Turayh¢, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, vol.1 (Tehran: Daftar Nashr, 1408 AH) p. 700. See at-Tusi, at-Tibyan, vol. 7 (Qum: Maktabatu ’l-l‘lam al-Islami, 1409 AH) p. 428; at-Tabrasi, Majma’u ’l-Bayan, vol. 7 (Beirut: Dar Ihyai ’t-Turathi ’l-‘Arabi, 1379AH) p.138; also see the famous Sunni commentator, Fakhru ’d-Din ar-Razi, at-Tafsiru ’l-Kabir, vol. 23 (Beirut: Daru ’l-Kutubi ’l-‘Ilmiyya, 1990) p. 179-180. Even the Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic (Ithaca, NY: Spoken Languages Services, 1976) defines al-khimar as “veil covering head and face of a woman.” (p. 261) No one has excluded the covering of the head from definition of “al-khimar”.

[4] Ar-Razi, at-Tafsiru ’l-Kabir, vol.23, p. 179, and other famous commentaries and collections of hadith such as at-Tabataba’i, al-Mizan, vol. 15 (Tehran: Daru ’l-Kutub, 1397AH) p. 121; al-Kulayni, al-Furu‘ mina ’l-Kafi, vol. 5 (Tehran: Daru ’l-Kutub, 1367AH) p. 521. Also see the commentaries of al-Kashshaf, Ibn Kathir, at-Tabari, and al-Qurtubi.

[5] Ibid, also see, al-Bukhari, Sahih (Arabic & English) vol. 6 (Beirut: Daru ’l-‘Arabiyya) p. 267; Abu ’l-A‘la Mawdudi, Tafhimu ’l-Qur’an, vol. 3 (Lahore: Idara-e Tarjuman-e Qur’an, 1994) p. 316.

[6] Ibid. al-Munjid, p. 96; at-Turayhi, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, vol. 1, p.384.

http://www.al-islam.org/hijab/3.htm

[shakur420]

The comparison's fine and has to do with how words are used in cultural, historical contexts. It doesn't have anything to do with Islam. Unless you can break down the translations of the verse - lol, and not just quote the 1 version which suits your purposes here, and is still not an accurate translation (you need to look up how brackets are used in Quran translations before you wanna pretend like you know what the fuck you're talkin about) whatever you say just doesn't hold any weight.

[El Mono]

Men and books written by men should never dictate how a woman lives her life.

[1871]

(07-07-2012 01:59 PM)shakur420 Wrote:  The comparison's fine and has to do with how words are used in cultural, historical contexts. It doesn't have anything to do with Islam. Unless you can break down the translations of the verse - lol, and not just quote the 1 version which suits your purposes here, and is still not an accurate translation (you need to look up how brackets are used in Quran translations before you wanna pretend like you know what the fuck you're talkin about) whatever you say just doesn't hold any weight.

And how words are used in the Quran. (Words are used in the Quran no? hahahaha) You mean you got it wrong. hahahaha. As I recall the 'dope' quote was yours - and you got it wrong there also - which puts all your other comments into perspective. Islam btw is a cultural historical phenomena - are you saying that it isnt? Of course the quote is from http://www.al-islam.org/hijab/3.htm - so you should take it up with them - of course youre going to tell these Muslims they are wrong and you are right by using your preferred translation hahahahaha - make sure you havent been in the park drinking first http://quran.com/4/43

[YaelTheGreat]

Can we make a thread about linguistics and how it is even possible to say we can understand the historical context and usage of words and phrases? I don't see how in a society where written literature was only written by a few we could by any way determine how the masses of people responded to and understood these and other works. Just interested...

[shakur420]

No, no, he's right. The interpretation he picks is the only right one, and a perfect translation from the original language. His views on the hijab are therefore absolutely correct. We should not read the Quran for ourselves and interpret the messages as they make sense to us. Ignore the parts in the Quran where it tells you to reflect, all you have to do is ask a scholar.

[1871]

Yes, yes, youre right- and that means YOUR interpretation is correct and other Muslims interpretation is wrong - because of course they must all accept your interpretation and not read the Quran for themselves. Of course - if they dont accept your view then of course it isnt Islam - lol - its 'historical/cultural' . hahahahahahaha. Maybe you can practice your usual mental contortions and interpret entire text to mean the exact opposite of what it says. Take another drink. After all - you can make things up as you go along to suit yourself - why break the habit of a lifetime ? lol Funny how the links were to the the views given by other Muslims....oh,but of course, 'they havent reflected for themselves' . lol.

Maybe you should go and tell them that the way they dress has nothing to do with Islam