Hey IT.co.uk

[Mushr00m]

(06-22-2010 07:21 PM)kcoll Wrote:  on another note if the government wants men and women to give their lifes for their country the should be lieing to them, come on even you must admit all the WMD stuff was bull. george w even said the hardest part of his job was linking saddam to bin laden

I absolutely 100% agree that the WMD's were bull, and that Saddam couldn't be linked to Bin Laden.

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(06-22-2010 07:23 PM)Boboulas Wrote:  While you remind people of september 11th ill remind people of nicuragua, columbia, chile, east timor, vietnam, haiti, palestine and many more where 9/11s have been carried out by american terrorists. Why arent you cheering for the death of american soldiers? If the whitehouse wanted to hunt down terrorists they would start in america.

Why aren't I cheering for the deaths of American Soldiers? You've got to be kidding me...Don't blame the soldiers, blame the politicians for creating and approving the war. The soldiers shouldn't be blamed. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, why don't you go and join the Westboro Baptist Church while you are on your anti-soldier roid rage.


I would also like to know what ya'll do in real life to get your points across. Do you just talk here and imagine and fantasize about what could happen, or are you active in real life? I'm just curious...

[Boboulas]

Quote:Why aren't I cheering for the deaths of American Soldiers? You've got to be kidding me...Don't blame the soldiers, blame the politicians for creating and approving the war. The soldiers shouldn't be blamed. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, why don't you go and join the Westboro Baptist Church while you are on your anti-soldier roid rage.

Well why do you hate militants? Its total hypocricy because you belive your cause is worthy while theirs isnt.

Quote:I would also like to know what ya'll do in real life to get your points across. Do you just talk here and imagine and fantasize about what could happen, or are you active in real life? I'm just curious...

Im a fucking student who makes a worthless ammount of money a week, i do what i can. I guess you arent imagineing a fantasy, you fucking live one.

[Mushr00m]

(06-22-2010 09:23 PM)Boboulas Wrote:  Well why do you hate militants? Its total hypocricy because you belive your cause is worthy while theirs isnt.

Im a fucking student who makes a worthless ammount of money a week, i do what i can. I guess you arent imagineing a fantasy, you fucking live one.

I hate them because they kill American CIVILIANS and SOLDIERS. How is it hypocritical that I support my cause and not theirs? Please elaborate. Also, why does it seem that it is ok that they killed our civilians, but when some of theirs die, everyone is all up in arms?

I live the life I chose. You live the life you chose. We will never agree on how each of us lives our lives. We will never understand each other.

[Boboulas]

Quote:I hate them because they kill American CIVILIANS and SOLDIERS. How is it hypocritical that I support my cause and not theirs?

Why dont you hate american soldiers who kill iraqi civilians and militants? its the exact same thing from a different angle!!! Then you wonder why they hate you!?!?

Quote:why does it seem that it is ok that they killed our civilians, but when some of theirs die, everyone is all up in arms?

No one is saying that its ok to kill civilians. If anything the casualties of americans is focused on rather than the casualties of anyone else, you are proof of that.

[shakur420]

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I am quite clear what regime change actually means, and I know the only reason U.S. helped was to insert Al Quaeda, because they thought it would benefit both countries. Obviously we were wrong.

So you understand that American imperialism was the root cause. Like I said, trying to do it over again is not the solution. Try not invading/meddling in other countries, as imperialism has proven to be the incorrect method.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Have you not seen how the Taliban treat their fellow countrymen and women? Have you read about the strict Sharia law that was practiced there? Would you like to live like that? In my opinion, I'd take a corrupt U.S. government over Taliban rule any day.

lol, alright man. The evil Taliban who brang peace to the country, resisted American influence successfully and crippled the heroin industry are the evil scourge of this planet that need to be removed. Sure. How many people have the Taliban killed again? Cause I'm sure that the U.S. has murdered 100x more people. Who should we be trying to focus on? The dude who's nickle-diming on the corner? Or the corrupted customs official letting in kilos of cocaine in the country? Your logic depends on supremacy - the supremacy of America. America is always "trying to do good". Just ignore all the murder, corruption and lies. Don't worry about that shit. lol, it's a logic that billions of people on this planet disagree with.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  The USA made a mistake, and we have to correct it.

Once again, the supreme American view - you decide what's best for everyone else, right? Nice try, no one's buying it anymore.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Maybe you misunderstood the term "human shield". This isn't propoganda, there's raw footage of it happening. Raw footage of Taliban fighters grabbing kids IN SCHOOL YARDS and holding them in front of them as a shield so they could shoot at American forces, and they wouldn't shoot back. The U.S. does everything possible to try and minimize combat in civilian areas. Pamphlets are dropped in cities warning of an offensive. I know it is the people's homes and they shouldn't have to leave their homes for our convenience, but it is a safety precaution. Some of them harbor Taliban fighters, so it is dangerous for the innocent civilians to be around the fighting. The civilians that harbor the Taliban, well, I have no sympathy for what happens to them. They aren't innocent. I don't intend to sound mean or cold hearted, but it's the truth. And as for your statement of blaming the victim, the Taliban are not victims. They are aggresors...

No, I didn't misunderstand. You are continuing to do my work for me though, I appreciate it. You admit in the same paragraph that you are in their country, you have brought violence to their neighborhoods. And you call them "aggressors". lol. Thanks for proving my point that you are spitting propaganda. By the way, why are the Taliban fighting near a school anyways? Because your army has invaded the area. It's your fault, not the person who is trying to defend against your pre-emptive, first blow.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  ...the civilians are victims.

Once again, you pretend to care about "civilians" while you support dropping bombs where those civilians live, firing live ammunition where they work, and take control of their natural resources and forcing them to sell the rights to their oil to American companies (oh, you didn't hear about how the U.S. blackmailed them to do that? To use Saddam's IMF debt against the country unless they sold the rights to the oil fields? It's illegal, by the way.)

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  You do have a valid point. But if troops are being held down and are under heavy fire, what can you expect the military to do?

Get the fuck out of where you don't belong. That's what the fuck I expect you to do. Don't bring war and destruction to a peoples, and then say "what do you want us to do?" as an excuse to kill more people. Leave them alone. Simple.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  They try to minimize civilian casualties...

Just because you say that doesn't make it true. "Israel" tries the same thing. Human rights groups, the U.N. and just about every person on the planet educated on the situation understands that it's a false statement.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I can't try to stick up for the people that bomb populated cities.

Are you aware of how many tons of bombs have been dropped on Afghan/Iraqi cities? You say this, but you join the U.S. army. hmmmm....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I also wouldn't apply the Geneva convention to the war in Iraq/Afghanistan. It isn't a traditional war.

Problem is, you nor your politicians have the legal or social right to "not apply the Geneva Conventions". lol, like are you for real?? International law is clear. Just because your last puppet President implemented a term (enemy combatant), doesn't mean that the law is circumvented. The law is clear, and so is your position. And you people wonder why nobody respects you, likes you, or gives a fuck about a few thousand of your people.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  A lot of tribal leaders and sheikh's actually support the United State's being in Afghanistan/Iraq. I'd say they are more qualified to represent the people than their own governments.

Thank you. Then you do understand how corrupt the American-supported governments are. And I'm sure the "tribal leaders" (they're actually warlords, by the way, not leaders) have received no money, arms or support in exchange for their support....

...and, there's no way that America threatened, blackmailed or implanted them, right?....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I do agree with you that America should keep it's nose out of other countries business, but IT BECAME OUR BUSINESS WHEN THEY CRASHED PLANES INTO OUR BUILDINGS.

Actually, you don't, because you continue to support imperialism to this day. You're contradicting yourself more than "...a televangelist preaching out of his Bentley...". When "they' crashed planes into your buildings? OK. So, the "hijackers" who were found alive after 9/11 doesn't make you think that there's something wrong? Or, maybe that most of those accused were Saudi. Shouldn't you then, be invading Saudi Arabia?? Where the fuck do Afghanistan and Iraq fit in to the picture?? Oh, yeah, the Taliban were "harboring" bin laden. I'm guessing you haven't seen the video and mainstream news articles showing the willingness of the Taliban to hand bin laden over immediately - all they asked for was the proof of his involvement and the removal of sanctions. I bet your army recruiter didn't tell you that. And he probably didn't tell you about Ari Fleisher's response when asked by a reporter why the U.S. was ignoring the Taliban's offer of cooperation....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...30650.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1539468.stm
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KL17Df02.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/07/ret.us.taliban/
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2001/10/14...11014.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001...radite.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct...terrorism5
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/apo...16_000.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct...errorism11
http://bogusstory.com/laden-surrender.html

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I 100000% support the killing/torturing/waterboarding/whatever of people who think it is OK to kill Americans.

Right. So, Americans think it's OK to kill Iraqis, Kurds, Arabs, Palestinians, Chechens, Russians, Chinese, Irish, so you understand why people 100000% support the killing/torturing/waterboarding/flying-planes-into-buildings/whatever of Americans, right? Or do you believe Americans only should be protected and avenged? (God Bless America - and no where else, right?)

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I don't know if you watched TV the night of 9/11, but I sure did. I was 10 years old. When I saw them burning American flags, chanting anti-American propoganda, I knew all I wanted to do was be a soldier. I grew hatred for them. I wanted nothing more than to see their bloody bodies litter their streets. When I watched the U.S. invasion of Iraq, I put a big smile across my face. I knew what we were doing there was satisfying my personal vengeance for them. As I grew older, despite what anyone thinks, I think I grew wiser, though. I can say a couple years back I didn't give 2 shakes of a lambs tail about civilians. I used to read articles/watch the news and hear "U.S. forces accidentally kill (insert number here) in (insert place here) by (insert weapon here)", and used to not care, because my thought was "their own people made this happen, who cares if some joe schmoes that I don't even know halfway across the world die. Of course, my thoughts have since changed, and I grew less ignorant, and opened my mind more. I still believe their own people brought the deaths of civilians upon themselves, and I still have a boiling hatred for terrorists, or as you call them "resistance fighters". I'd be more than happy to turn them into a walking piece of lead, and I can honestly say if I go to Afghanistan/Iraq and I kill someone shooting at me, I will have ZERO regrets. The only thing I don't want is to see civilians dead. Anyone shooting at me, or harboring someone who shoots at me, or that someones terrorist friends, you can catch a bullet.

So, again, you understand that they are people too, and they have gone through what you went through 100x harder, and 10x longer. You attacked their people first. Read a history book. Why is it OK for you to shoot a "terrorist", but not OK for an Iraqi to shoot you when you bust down his door? I'll tell you why, because you have this notion that American lives are worth more. American vengeance is justified. But no one's vengeance against America is legitimate. This is why I respect Americans less and less everyday. You guys make hitler look like Mother Theressa.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  ...I believe a lot of this forum just talks the talk, and would not walk the walk. As Immortal Technique calls them, "Coffee shop revolutionaries".

You're probably right. I wonder how many U.S. soldiers sign up saying "I want to help people" - and how many of them end up killing instead....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  ...you can bet your ass I agree with the killing of Taliban, Al Quaeda, and any other "resistance fighter" who wants to raise a gun at an American Soldier.

Wow. You must really do your research, cause if I'm not mistaken bin laden claims the same thing - he is ready to kill any person who supports or helps the killing of anybody's family. I didn't realize you regarded his logic so highly....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Jihad is propoganda.

"Jihad" translated to English means "struggle". In the Quranic context it refers to both the internal struggle and external struggle against injustice. So no, it's not propaganda. It's real life.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Do you honestly believe Osama Bin Laden would strap a bomb to his chest and walk up to an American Convoy? You can bet your ass not. It is just ant-west propoganda aimed at the families who have lost loved ones in the war.

Oh, so it's not resistance to imperialism? And here I thought these people were angry because you had raped, pillaged, tortured and killed their families for decades. Damn. I'm sure they hate "freedom" - that's why they're trying to achieve it. Shit man, I don't believe I'm gonna respond to you anymore. You're viewing rhetoric as though it was fact - and not even bothering to check the history of the world. By the way, George W - when was the last time he put on a uniform and went into Iraq? He recruited you, didn't he....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Read the qu'ran, then read the terrorists interpretations of the qu'ran and tell me what you think.

I have read it. Probably more times than you. I know exactly what is prescribed and what is not. I, in fact, reject much of what "Muslims" describe as being a part of Islam. There are many doctrines that do not exist. But I'll tell you what, defending yourself against a foreign, occupying force that drops bombs on your city, is as righteous as it gets.....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  ...I joined because I truely believe I can help the people of Afghanistan...I can see though that you just don't understand how me joining the Army will change anything. I really don't know how to answer it. I joined because I am following my heart. Sometimes I can't even explain why I joined. But my heart told me to, and I answered the call. Maybe I won't like it when I join? Maybe I will think "Wow immortaltechnique.co.uk was right about joining the Army". Maybe I will say "Wow immortaltechnique.co.uk was so wrong about the Army, but they won't understand, and they won't unless they serve". HELL, maybe I will be transformed into a totally different person, a robot who won't have these same views. Maybe if you ask me in January when I get out of training what I think about the civilians in Afghanistan, maybe my response will be "fuck em'". I sure hope I don't change for the worse, but I don't/won't know. This is an experiment of a sort, I guess.

Maybe it is a calling. Maybe if I go to Afghanistan, I can expose the war for what it really is. Maybe I will go there and think "shakur420 was right, and now I need to show that this war is unnecessary and show the world it needs to end". I honestly don't know. I will only know my true calling when that time hits. That may sound weird/flakey, but I don't care.

No, it doesn't sound flakey. It sounds extremely intelligent and humble. In the last 2 posts I responded trying to do 2 things - share what I've learned, and feel you out. Try to get a feeling for how things work in your head. In this post, I've been getting more and more frustrated as I read your comments. I began to realize that you are repeating a lot of rhetoric that has been systematically created to justify murder and control. I actually seen one of the forum members on msn while I was writing and expressed my frustration. Then I got to this last comment from you. And my respect for you as a human being just went up. I think you do very well understand that the people you are attacking are people too, and they have reasons to do what they are doing - just like you. And I think it's very intelligent to decide to go and see for yourself before you decide to hold an absolute position. Although there may be some views, some things you've said that would make people think you've made up your mind, I think you are very open minded and fair. But like you said, you need to see for yourself what's happening. Just like in so many accounts of WWII, how enemy soldiers stopped fighting and started playing soccer on Christmas together. Just like how seeing a child running through a battlefield gives you a perspective you never had before. Just like watching a cloud of dust go through NY city makes you feel a certain way. I think you are ready to put yourself in other people's shoes. Respect.

And on that note, I thought about going back and deleting some of my responses in this post, but I think that seeing first hand how someone responds to the rhetoric and views you have presented might help with your goal to understand and help people. I'll leave it how it is. I'll tell you straight up that if you don't stop discussing, putting forth your thoughts, neither will I. I may come off ass "disrespectful", but if you get to know me, you'll understand that I'm just blunt. I'm not one to mince my words. Doesn't mean I won't continue to convo with you, you know what I mean? This is how peace is achieved, as far as I can tell. To concentrate on our similarities instead of using our differences as excuses to fight. lol, let's see where it goes. Plus, I'd love for you to give us some idea about what it's like to be there, what you experienced, what you saw, what you learned. I hope you do.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  There is no peaceful way to negotiate with terrorists. In fact, the only way WE SHOULD negotiate with terrorists is with an exchange of bullets and mortar rounds.

Again, rhetoric and propaganda at it's finest. I bet you don't even know the common international definition of "terrorist". And I bet you don't know that your country changed it's definition of "terrorist" recently to disallow the term to be attributed to soldiers of a recognized country. Not many other countries have done that, including the U.N. Terrorism, before 9/11 in the United States was defined as "...trying to achieve a political goal through the use of terror against civilians...". After 9/11, your country changed that definition to include "...by non-state groups or persons...". Effectively shielding their government and soldiers from being prosecuted for dropping bombs on civilian cities (that's a pretty good example of "terrorizing civilians" if you ask me). On top of which, which war has been waged for reasons other than "achieving political goals"? The fact of the matter is, most wars are terrorism. The Taliban are no more terrorists than you are. That's the standard internationally accepted view - and law. The difference is, the Taliban and al qaeda have killed maybe a few thousand people, your army and government have killed millions. Which problem needs to be fixed first....

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  PLEASE, murdering 1 million people in cold blood? Hardly the case, to be honest. If it was in cold blood, we would line up their civilians and shoot them like Hitler. MOST of them were accidents, and just the sad product of war. Of course there are the very isolated incidents where soldiers slaughtered civilians in cold blood, and most of them were punished.

Really?? You think that dropping bombs on cities is not murdering in cold blood?? If you are aware that there will be civilian casualties, you are not allowed to attack. That's the law. It is the law, because it's murder in cold blood. Attacking where you are aware of the high chance of civilian casualties is not an "accident", it's called indifference. I'd hate to see how you would feel if your child was sleeping in his bed, had a bomb dropped on your neighborhood, and then you saw the soldier who flew the plane tell you it was "an accident".

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  ...I may want cold hard facts from Noam Chamsky. Doubt he'd be willing though. It could be purely his opinion.

Uh, I don't think so. Noam Chomsky is one the most respected and reputable scholars in the world. He's written more books than Dean Koontz - all included with hundreds of references. If you know who he is, you wouldn't question whether he has references, you might say you wanna check them out, but you wouldn't doubt that he cites them in his work.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Do you remember what happened to Gandhi? He was shot to death.

Exactly. One hard-ass motherfucker. Gandhi's ideology was not for pussies. He was harder than the toughest American marine. He knew he was going to die a painful death, and felt that he was strong enough to endure it so that others would be in peace. He was truly trying to achieve peace, so that's the tool he used to get it - peace. Instead of taking the easy way out and shooting the motherfucker who's pointing a gun at a child, he would put down his gun and step in between that motherfucker and the child. That's called trying to achieve peace. Don't get me wrong, like I said, I am all for violence in many situations, I feel it's righteous and necessary to achieve many things - just not peace. If the Americans didn't incessantly talk about peace while they murdered and bring up democracy while they overthrew elected governments, I wouldn't be pointing out the hypocrisy. I would be explaining to people that Americans need to fight to save their economy, protect their political interests and continue the militarization of their nation - just like Germans had to in the early 1900s. I might not support, but I wouldn't hate so much. But instead, mainstream media and their lemmings insist on preaching over and over again the lies that make people think they are superior to others and that their cause is just while those fucking backwards Iraqis can die with their "terrorist militants". At least if your people were honest, your country might actually have some legitimacy in the world. I must fight just like you, you get it?

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  Communist economy, some parts I agree with, some I don't. Democratic rule, yes.

Wow, again, you surprise me. You are one of the very few people I've met that actually might understand that communism and capitalism are economic systems while democracy and fascism are governing systems. Respect. Now, take it one step further. Take a look back about 60 years or so. The word "communist" has been replaced with "terrorist" and the Russia has been replaced with the Middle East. Were your country's supporters not falsely demonizing communism back then? They should have been talking about the fascist governments who were ruling those communist economies, but they weren't because they were interested in getting rich - something communism, true communism doesn't allow. Now bring it to 2001. They want political and economic control in one of the world's richest areas (rich in natural resources) and the natives have been getting more and more restless over the years. They're about to overthrow the puppet regimes that your country implanted to keep things stable/unstable. Now it's time to demonize the people - the freedom fighters become "terrorists", the Muslims become "extremists", the Arabs become "haters of freedom". lol. The parallels are undeniable.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I know you can support the soldiers and not support the war. I just really doubt a lot of people on this forum give a rats ass about soldiers. They think they are just pawns...

You wouldn't have an army if the American public was not convinced that patriotism was more important than justice and peace. It's a fundamental reality of leadership and governance. Soldiers must believe they are doing the right thing, or they would walk off the battlefield. You may be right that some people here might have views about soldiers because of their ideologies about violence. They believe in non-violence. It's good to hear an American say that you can support the soldiers and not support the war. The only thing, though, is that by allowing people to ignore the war in support of soldiers is actually supporting the war. I might give you a place to stay when you come back from Afghanistan because you don't have anywhere to go, but believe me, if I moved to Afghanistan tomorrow, I'd shoot you in a heartbeat if I saw you in a foreign uniform about to shoot a gun. If you were not in the process of attacking, I would be forced to take you prisoner and not harm you. If we were on a battlefield, I'd put a bullet in your head. I would do the same to a Taliban fighter who grabs a kid to shield himself. No question. My point with this is that although many soldiers of many nations may feel that their cause is righteous, history has proven than most of those soldiers are wrong and that they were only supporting rich or crazy politicians/leaders. So my "support for the troops" comes in the form of education - not ignoring what they are doing on a daily basis. Like I mentioned before, in today's day in age, there's no excuse to say "I didn't know that my country was killing people intentionally". That shit doesn't fly anymore. You yourself have admitted knowing of the fallacy of much of the propaganda used by the U.S./Britain today. But when you excuse yourself for murdering a child, remember to excuse the 9/11 hijackers as well - because they were trying to stop your country from murdering their people too. You are one and the same, you may not understand today, but I think you just might one day.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  I fight for the innocent people who were killed on 9/11, I fight so the Afghanistan people can live in peace and have order in the region, I fight so you don't have to. I fight so your kids won't have to. I fight so you can go to bed at night and not have to worry about some extremist letting off a car bomb in your neighborhood. I fight so more innocent people won't die, and I fight for the innocent civilians that did die, to do them justice.

This is why some people may call you a pawn - because you are. You seem to forget that those you are fighting against have the same ideology as you. They are fighting for those lost in Palestine. In Iraq. In Afghanistan. In Syria. In Lebanon. In Chechnya. In Bosnia. In America. In Britain. In Columbia. In Peru. In Angola. In South Africa. These people are fighting for those how have been touched and will be touched by the hand of American/British imperialism. Do you even know what Gandhi's and Mandela's views about Palestine are? Resistance to occupation has always been demonized and that is why the biggest occupier is on the verge of crumbling. We've had enough. We're not stupid little farmers anymore. We've learned how to fight back and win. To make you understand that we will die for our children - not like you Americans who send the children of your poor in to battle so that you can be rich. No. We will fight to the death for those that can't.

This is their ideology. How are you any different? The only difference is that you fight for the oppressor. Don't cry about those bringing Rome to it's knees when you signed up to be one of it's minions, you get what I'm saying? If you wanna truly help, it starts with education, not vengeance. Not violence. Violence may be the way, but that's not where you start. You start by learning. That's what Tech means when he talks about the revolution. People are starting to educate themselves more and more every day. Your leaders will fall man. They will fall. Don't cry because you didn't bother to find who your leaders were before you agreed to protect them and do their bidding. Now I understand this may not be you, you seem to want to "do what you can" to wanna help people. But it seems as though you may be entering a system (the army) that you do not fully understand. And I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when you find out exactly what it is that you are a part of. Have you ever seen Platoon? If you were Charlie Sheen, and you saw your CO murder someone, what are you gonna do? The reality is, you probably ain't gonna do shit, cause the other lemming soldiers will turn on you. This is why chain of command is so important in the armed forces. To prevent mutiny and promote efficiency. You don't have time to think about orders on the battlefield, you only have time to carry them out. If one person is allowed to defy the CO, there will be floods of soldiers saying "fuck that". Why do you think so many Iraqi soldiers gave up in the Gulf War? Because they were not ingrained properly to be soldiers.

(06-22-2010 05:50 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  The people do want their freedom, their freedom from the Taliban.

Really? And how many Afghans have you talked to about that? Cause I've talked to a couple here and there. And as much as they don't like the Taliban, they hate the U.S./Britain even more for slaughtering their people, destroying their country and forcing them to live in a war zone under the guise of "freeing them". Talk to a few Afghans when you're there. You might see what's up.



peace man.

[Mushr00m]

(06-22-2010 09:56 PM)Boboulas Wrote:  Why dont you hate american soldiers who kill iraqi civilians and militants? its the exact same thing from a different angle!!! Then you wonder why they hate you!?!?

No one is saying that its ok to kill civilians. If anything the casualties of americans is focused on rather than the casualties of anyone else, you are proof of that.

I dont approve of American Soldiers who kill iraqi civilians. I do approve of them killing militants. I've stated this already.

The only reason the American casualties are focused on more is because it is our people. Their death is the reason we are at war. That is the only reason we focus on them more than we focus on Iraqi/Afghani/Pakistani civilians that have died. They are a very sad by-product of war.

[shakur420]

(06-22-2010 10:00 PM)Mushr00m Wrote:  ...the only reason American casualties are focused on more is because it is our people. Their death is the reason we are at war. That is the only reason we focus on them more than we focus on Iraqi/Afghani/Pakistani civilians that have died.

No. Your media is focused on American casualties in order to gain recruits and support for the armed forces. The American people are focused on the casualties because they are lemmings and because it is their friends and family. The reason you are at war is for political/economic stability and because if your military was not at war, it would become obsolete. If your generals get old and die, new soldiers will take their place. These new soldiers will be incompetent if they have no battle experience. lol, and if you think your politicians and generals aren't aware of this, remember that they're much smarter than you or I. They are well aware of it. If your army does not require constant replacement of weapons, vehicles, ammunition and technology, do you understand that your economy would crumble tomorrow? Do you actually know how much of your economy (trade and labor) are involved in the military industry, the arms industry? It is a matter of survival, but it's an economic survival you guys are fighting for, not survival from a "terrorist threat".

Seriously, ask any economics major. They will tell you how important war is to a country's economy - especially yours.

[Boboulas]

So if its americans killing civilians you "dont aprove" but if its militants killing american soldiers you hate them to their very core.

[Mushr00m]

(06-23-2010 11:45 AM)Boboulas Wrote:  So if its americans killing civilians you "dont aprove" but if its militants killing american soldiers you hate them to their very core.

Ok lets speak the truth. I'm sick of covering up my true feelings. Of course I don't approve when civilians are being killed. Militants are killing American soldiers because they don't want the occupation. Of course I don't approve of soldiers being killed, but what can you expect the afghanis/iraqis to do when we restrict their way of life? I mean of course I'm in a really tricky situation to be saying this, but you get what I mean? Just because one day I may be fighting them doesn't mean I can't respect that they are fighting to keep us out of their country.

I know you read my other thread, it was just hard for me to try and justify the killing of American soldiers, because my friend was killed in Iraq. But I can't hide the truth...

"They say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam
But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong
Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight
It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights
I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream
I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem
I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south, my nigga
I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga"

[shakur420]

^lol, and I see that you understand why we all love Tech...

[Introcluse]

lol, looks like this bloke, hasn't returned to the forum out of fear of being intellectually humiliated again