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**shakur420** · 02-07-2010, 03:25 AM

Alright, again I just wanted to make a specific thread about this subject. Mainly for info and debate. I know that once again, this has probably been discussed randomly here and there in probably the wrong threads, so if admin/moderators want to merge threads or whatever, that would make sense. Also, if you've posted something about it in another thread, re-post that shit here and edit the original post with just a link referring to this thread.

I wanted to respond to the following statement regarding Freemasons, but I didn't think that it was on-topic to do so in the original thread:

(02-06-2010 11:10 AM)Sean Wrote: ...they're just a fraternal brotherhood of men trying make themselves feel important.

All I want to do is share one piece of information and ask one question. This is a list of Freemasons from Wikipedia, complete with references. Some notable names include:

Louis Armstrong
Silvio Berlusconi
Shadrach Bond
Omar Bongo
Joseph Brant
James Buchanan
Plutarco Elias Calles
Carol II
Jose Miguel Carrera
Winston Churchill
Thomas C. Clark
William Clark
Tyrus Cobb
William F. Cody (Buffalo Bill)
Nat King Cole
Samuel Colt
Edith Cowan
Miron Cristea
Aleister Crowley
John Diefenbaker
Bob Dole
James Doolittle
Arthur Conan Doyle
John David Eaton (Eaton's)
King Edward VII
King Edward VIII
Oliver Ellsworth
Geoffrey Fisher
Deodoro da Fonseca
Gerald Ford
Henry Ford
Benjamin Franklin
Henry Frye
Giuseppe Garibaldi
James A. Garfield
King George IV
King George VI
John H. Glenn
Henri Gregoire
John Hancock
Warren G. Harding
J. Edgar Hoover
Tim Horton
Jesse Jackson
Robert H. Jackson
Benito Juarez
Alexander Keith (yes, the beer)
Joseph Lamar
Jose P. Laurel
Leopold I of Belgium
Pascal Lissouba
John A. Macdonald
John Bayne Maclean
Thurgood Marshall
Douglas MacArthur
John S. McCain Sr. (Senator John McCain's grandfather)
John S. McCain Jr. (Senator John McCain's father)
Robert Menzies
Kweisi Mfume (founder of NAACP)
John Molson (yup, that beer too)
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Leopold Mozart
Sam Nunn
James Cash Penny (ever heard of J.C. Penny?)
George Pickett
Albert Pike
Richard Pryor
Franklin Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
James Mayer de Rothschild
Manual Roxas
John Rutledge
Augusto Cesar Sandino (Sandinistas)
Jose de San Martin
Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna
Richard Seddon
Joseph Smith Sr.
Joseph Smith Jr. (Church of Latter Day Saints)
William Howard Taft
Dave Thomas (Wendy's)
Harry S. Truman
Samuel Langhorne Clemens (aka Mark Twain)
Mehmed Talat
Swami Vivekananda
Earl Warren
George Washington
John Wayne
Oscar Wilde
Steve Wozniak (Apple)
Concerning the U.S. Constitution and Declaration of Independence, from the From the website of the Philalethes Society:

Myth: All, or almost all, Signers of the Articles of Confederation, Signers of the Declaration of Independence, and Signers of the Constitution were Freemasons.

Fact: Ten of the signers of the Articles, nine signers of the Declaration, and thirteen signers of the Constitution -- and only this number -- were, or would become, Freemasons. Even so, this is an excellent percentage of the participants. It should be noted that Edmund Randolph, governor and Grand Master of Virginia, although an important participant in the Constitutional Convention, didn't sign the document. He did, however, fight for its ratification. It should also be noted that four Presidents of the Continental Congresses were Freemasons: Peyton Randolph of Virginia, John Hancock of Massachusetts, Henry Laurens of South Carolina, and Arthur St. Clair of Pennsylvania. (For further study see Masonic Membership of the Founding Fathers, The Masonic Service Association).

By the way, all those people you don't recognize in the list are Presidents, Prime Ministers, religious leaders, Kings, Senators, large business owners, members of the U.S. Justice System, generals and other influential people like that. Go look up some names. You'll be surprised to find out how many were "first Presidents" or "first Prime Ministers".

So, my question (and the point for giving you that list of names) is, can claims that Masonic influence in our society are unimportant be taken as serious statements?

**ChunChu** · 02-07-2010, 03:58 AM

john wayne >.> woah ho now that's something new to me..

**shakur420** · 02-07-2010, 04:08 AM

by the way, if you're wanna check if these people really are (were) Freemasons, go to the wiki page, find the name and then check the reference associated with the name. I didn't check any, I was just trying to make a point, so there could be mistakes.

**Subé** · 02-07-2010, 04:32 AM

you're stating why is there a relationship of being a freemason and successful?

**ChunChu** · 02-07-2010, 05:16 AM

^2pac was successful but he's def not a freemason.

**Subé** · 02-07-2010, 05:25 AM

ye but hes dead

those cats on the other hand lived up at least their 50s

**shakur420** · 02-07-2010, 05:25 AM

(02-07-2010 04:32 AM)Subé Wrote: you're stating why is there a relationship of being a freemason and successful?

Nah. If someone claims that Freemasonry is just a fraternity/club and it's ideologies have not influenced the world in any major ways, when you look at a list like this, can you take that claim seriously?

**Subé** · 02-07-2010, 05:27 AM

false claim

weve been influenced by this "club" in so many ways even music

**ChunChu** · 02-07-2010, 05:37 AM

@shakur are you trying to say the masons have some kind of agenda?

**shakur420** · 02-07-2010, 06:13 AM

^well that's the point. A group as old as this with such prominent members must have goals. That can't really be a point of debate. The question is, what is the agenda? Is it sinister? Is it philanthropic? Is it political? Religious?

But this question is usually brushed off by statements like "they don't control anything" and "they don't influence anything". Well, when central people involved in creating a country, running it, fighting it's wars, creating it's laws and dishing out it's justice are all part of the same "club", are we supposed to take statements like that seriously?

**ChunChu** · 02-07-2010, 06:44 AM

yeah i guess you have a point there most of us don't know what their true intentions are whether their intentions are for the good , bad or just trying to balance shit out but we may never know unless they really show us it could be through actions , words , symbolism or what ever.

**shakur420** · 02-07-2010, 08:10 AM

^that's exactly it. When I was a kid and first started reading about them, I freaked out. Now, it's just a matter of defining their role/influence. I've known 2 (low-level) Masons in my life. There's no way they were involved in trying to "take over the world", you know? But I'd sure like to know what would happen if they were in front of a judge who was also a Mason...