Dna

[Lectre]

The absence of free will does not lead to the conclusion that action is programmed. I think the picture looks a lot more unclear - a mix of determinism and randomness. Randomness is proven to give rise to objects that seem ordered i.e. The universe. Considering that, its easier to swallow the idea that will is also random.

This is an area where not enough is known - but there is certainly enough out there, I think, to reject the idea of free will.

[OnlyTheFaithful]

well i appreciate your post but the thing is your arguement is based upon fallacy

you are saying that randomness is not a part of free will thats what i can gather...

ican formulate 1000 theories and they are all WRONG but 1 is right that is randomness and not randomness that is actively seeking out bullshit and eliminating it to find the truth .

in the only possible way ... i am free to think as i like i can change my mind man i think your argument is weak, or i just dont understand at all its one or the other or both perhaps .

sory if free will was random then m,marketing companies wouldn't know who to target would they..... music etc man ...

---

you dont just randomly like things .... liking requires some thought behind it its not random i can say i detest football which ido, but you know what i dont hate footballers i can appreciate there art, i just dont drop into its falllacy of being so speacial.

you must be a troll

---

in fact the only thing ill concede against free will is that if you hold something as a facsit truth then it limits your free will

thats it end of story

---

and that free will is based upon bullshit my friend hence the need and terminology of freethinking and shallow and deep

---

evidence stacks against randomness Edward Kemp actively learned the test to earn his freedom to kill and rape .

He learned the test and beat it to earn his freedom he did not randomly do this

theory of no free will what a joke .

i

---

and you cannot say we have limited free will either, no , see my point on bullshit held on truth limiting free willl. and that is a limitation which is no indication it is merely suppressing freewill.

based upon so called facts. on how you perceive yourself and how you perciev society to perceive you

ffs i feel like theonly person who actually knows humanity sometimes.

[YaelTheGreat]

We have will, though there are many things, such as society you were born, class, specific neighborhood, parents, ethnicity, etc., that create the way you think. Most people don't wake up one day and decide that homosexuality is something they really want to participate in. The way they were raised, experiences, etc. that make people think in a particular way, being gay for example.

[OnlyTheFaithful]

i reckon its the same people who look at ant and say they have no free will and they dont even understand how they came to be and they annot possibkly understand how they came to be because they havent sen them in every stage of development have they.
all they know is that they work each and every one for the whole and then probably say it came about through randomness and not intelliegnce. and saying that making 1000 theories to find the true one isnt free will .


Fuck that illogical bullshit

---

(10-23-2012 11:01 PM)YaelTheGreat Wrote:  We have will, though there are many things, such as society you were born, class, specific neighborhood, parents, ethnicity, etc., that create the way you think. Most people don't wake up one day and decide that homosexuality is something they really want to participate in. The way they were raised, experiences, etc. that make people think in a particular way, being gay for example.

wont dispute that but u can actively change your mind cant you .. for sure and its not random its by someone appealing to valid logic and valid truths....

---

you just have to be able to stand up to your circle who may ostricise you

[YaelTheGreat]

Of course you can, but something/one has to spark that self interest and exploration in you, that kind of thought is not promoted in our society.

[Lectre]

Just because its intuitive doesn't make it real.

In fact, you arrive at 'no free will' if you are strictly logical. If you accept that the mind is in the brain - the brain is made of neurons and neurotransmitters that are subject to biochemistry. Biochemistry is subject to chemistry and biology. Both are subject to physics. Physics is subject to quantum physics. Randomness and probabilities are at the heart of quantum physics.

Our world is constructed from the very small but we have only evolved to interpret what we need to, in order to survive.

Human higher cognitive functions are processed, generally in the brain's neocortex. Which also happens to be the last area of the brain to receive sensory information. By the time sensory information becomes known to the higher areas of the cortex some signals have already been sent back to generate actions. The cortex has a strong inhibitionary function which leads us into perceiving will - which is of evolutionary convenience.

It is worth reading here for a review on some studies which are controversial:
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110831/f...023a.html.

[OnlyTheFaithful]

ill state something as best i can.

real truth is fascist its simply is so 2 +2 is unquestionable isnt it. so that is not free will.

But you have a choice to find the truth or not and finding the truth is no easy matter. we have free will but the truth limits some and expands others...

by blindly accepting bullshit you limit your free will ..

basically we have free will to seek out the real truth and the real way of how we should act and how we should be .

each real truth then limits free will.

the irony is almost no one holds alot of the same things as truths, and therein is a big fucking problem. of humanity.

people dont take seriously that opinions are like onions merely part of something to fond the real truths opinions are banded about like Christmas presents, they dont even know what they are for.

they are for finding truths.